View Full Version : On Perseverating...
...as part of my archival dig to find the page of 9/11/01 posts on toadfly, I came across my post that morning on whether to buy an E36 M3C or lease a (then new) 330i. I remember agonizing over that decision for a month or more. I ended up with the M3, but since that time I've sold the M3, leased an E46 M3, got rid of that, and leased a 330.
Full circle, and all of that, but the other thing that this brings to mind is the pointlessness of agonizing over these decisions. Cars come. Cars go. If you don't like the car you get, you can get rid of it for the one you didn't.
That is all.
If you don't like the car you get, you can get rid of it for the one you didn't.
Fighting... urge... to test drive a 335i...
Full circle, and all of that, but the other thing that this brings to mind is the pointlessness of agonizing over these decisions. Cars come. Cars go. If you don't like the car you get, you can get rid of it for the one you didn't.
That is all.
but then you get to agonize over how much money you lose by trading cars so often, and complain about BMWs depreciating like rocks
John V
09-11-2006, 09:47 AM
Full circle, and all of that, but the other thing that this brings to mind is the pointlessness of agonizing over these decisions. Cars come. Cars go. If you don't like the car you get, you can get rid of it for the one you didn't.
It's not really as simple as that. The process of buying and selling cars is pretty tedious and expensive when you factor in inspections, registration, taxes, insurance, dealing with the financing company (if applicable), etc etc etc. I love the process of picking cars to drive, driving them, and picking them up but the ancillary stuff is annoying.
but then you get to agonize over how much money you lose by trading cars so often, and complain about BMWs depreciating like rocks
I don't think I've ever done that. Cars are my habit. They are cheaper than cocaine. The transaction costs of buying and selling are annoying, but you've got to pay to play. If the amount I lost on this crap bothered me, I'd buy an E34 M5 and a 993 and keep them forever.
I don't think I've ever done that. Cars are my habit. They are cheaper than cocaine. The transaction costs of buying and selling are annoying, but you've got to pay to play. If the amount I lost on this crap bothered me, I'd buy an E34 M5 and a 993 and keep them forever.
What is it about those two cars?
Two weeks ago I was going through some long-neglected piles of misc crap in the house and found the flyer for that silver Euro E34 M5 that was out at Curry's. Letting that one get away still bothers me.
John V
09-11-2006, 10:12 AM
I don't think I've ever done that. Cars are my habit. They are cheaper than cocaine. The transaction costs of buying and selling are annoying, but you've got to pay to play. If the amount I lost on this crap bothered me, I'd buy an E34 M5 and a 993 and keep them forever.
Right because then you'd be spending 10x that money to maintain and repair those highly reliable vehicles. :ack:
:D
but then you get to agonize over how much money you lose by trading cars so often, and complain about BMWs depreciating like rocks
Who's agonizing?
Sharp11
09-11-2006, 12:31 PM
It's not really as simple as that. The process of buying and selling cars is pretty tedious and expensive when you factor in inspections, registration, taxes, insurance, dealing with the financing company (if applicable), etc etc etc. I love the process of picking cars to drive, driving them, and picking them up but the ancillary stuff is annoying.
I think he's talking about the "bigger picture" stuff, you know, cars come and go........today's "gotta have it" vehicles become yesterday's news in no time at all.
BMW etc., must love websites like bimmerfest - owners do a lot of work for them, they lust over a cars not yet released, then when they finally do show, everyone posts pictures of their new rides, complete with salivating write-ups.
A year or two passes and the same cars everyone paid through the nose for are available at used car prices.
Ed
BMW etc., must love websites like bimmerfest - owners do a lot of work for them, they lust over a cars not yet released, then when they finally do show, everyone posts pictures of their new rides, complete with salivating write-ups.
A year or two passes and the same cars everyone paid through the nose for are available at used car prices.
Ed
No question. And I'd be lying if I said the 'fest did not influence me to get my car sooner and spend more than I would have had I been isolated car forums like it.
That said, I did buy it for the right reasons and at a good price. 3.5 years later, I'm still very happy with my car.
John V
09-11-2006, 12:51 PM
Hm, I had a different interpretation.
. . . but the other thing that this brings to mind is the pointlessness of agonizing over these decisions. Cars come. Cars go. If you don't like the car you get, you can get rid of it for the one you didn't.
I read that as "don't stress about buying the wrong car, you can always sell it."
I read that as "don't stress about buying the wrong car, you can always sell it."
:+1
...I just can't afford to "pay to play," I guess. :dunno:
John V
09-11-2006, 01:45 PM
...I just can't afford to "pay to play," I guess. :dunno:
Me neither. Good thing I have grown to really love my car.
:+1
...I just can't afford to "pay to play," I guess. :dunno:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=116812&postcount=14
I don't think it's that you can't afford to. It's that you choose not to. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Besides, it's all a matter of degree; JV might not flip cars as frequently as others we know, but from what he's said he's had more cars over the last few years than many of my non-enthusiast friends have.
And in the end, I don't see why people get so worked up over what people do with their own money. If I, or Alan, or anyone else wants to buy a new car every year, then so be it. I can think of less-fun ways to part with your cash.
I could just as easily pick on Boboboy for having 3 new, trendy cars in his garage, when he and his wife both work from home.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=116812&postcount=14
I don't think it's that you can't afford to. It's that you choose not to. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Besides, it's all a matter of degree; JV might not flip cars as frequently as others we know, but from what he's said he's had more cars over the last few years than many of my non-enthusiast friends have.
This is true.
But I do look forward to having more car play money in the years to come (if it all works out).
I could just as easily pick on Boboboy for having 3 new, trendy cars in his garage, when he and his wife both work from home.
go for it--but I don't know why that would be something to pick on :dunno:
PS--a mazda6 and a 3.5 year old 325iT are new and trendy?
sweet!
And in the end, I don't see why people get so worked up over what people do with their own money.
Then why do you constantly complain about how you got raped on trade-in and how BMW resale values suck?
Then why do you constantly complain about how you got raped on trade-in and how BMW resale values suck?
Yup, I constantly complain about that.
go for it--but I don't know why that would be something to pick on
I don't know why trading cars every 1-2 years is something to pick on.
In the time my dad has had his '00 528i I've had a '97 Audi A4, an '01 330i, a '98 M3 and my '06 330i. In his eyes, I turn over cars pretty damn frequently. But in the time I had my '98 M3, JST had 3 cars and I'm sure lemming and ff had more. Hell, Alan F probably had 10 during those 5 years.
So it's all relative.
The one thing the M3 taught me is that I should lease, if only to force me to move on.
My uncle's been through more cars than I have in the past 5 years, including 2 'vettes, 3 Lexi, and now his first BMW. And he's thinking of doing ED again next summer, because he and his wife had so much fun the first time.
Car swapping is definitely a disease. And I think it's hereditary.
Even though I probably won't get Bonoboy's approval on this, I'm going to try and snag my uncle's 525i before he does ED again. One of the rare instances where I'd be comfortable buying a used car, because I know he takes care of his vehicles as well as I do.
I don't know why trading cars every 1-2 years is something to pick on.
who's doing that?
go for it--but I don't know why that would be something to pick on :dunno:
Who's doing that?
John V
09-11-2006, 05:08 PM
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=116812&postcount=14
I don't think it's that you can't afford to. It's that you choose not to. Nothing wrong with that, of course. Besides, it's all a matter of degree; JV might not flip cars as frequently as others we know, but from what he's said he's had more cars over the last few years than many of my non-enthusiast friends have.
You're right, it's definitely a matter of perspective. My car owning has gone like this:
'87 RX-7 Turbo: Bought May 1994, sold April 2000
'91 Civic Si: Bought May 1997, sold July 1997
'95 Taurus SHO: Bought May 2000, sold October 2002
'95 M3: Bought October 2002, sold October 2005
'00 BoxS: bought October 2005.
But none of those cars were new. If I had bought the M3 new I probably would have had 5 years of total ownership - I sold it primarily due to its mileage.
lemming
09-11-2006, 05:09 PM
I don't think I've ever done that. Cars are my habit. They are cheaper than cocaine. The transaction costs of buying and selling are annoying, but you've got to pay to play. If the amount I lost on this crap bothered me, I'd buy an E34 M5 and a 993 and keep them forever.
and it's a discovery process, both about one's self as well as the technology for techology's sake versus technology that directly impacts the driving experience.
i think it also takes 'some' people longer to figure out what really makes them happy versus other people who tend to be more pragmatic or more practical.
here are two examples:
1. AWD versus RWD. even with snow tires and a mechanical limited slip differential, there are some treacherous roads and hills that are scary in a RWD vehicle. it's not as bad as it used to be because snow tires are damn good these days --but it's easy to buy into the hype and buy AWD for the 5-7 days out of the year that it's semi-difficult to get around in a RWD car. but it took me awhile to be comfortable with that and to come to peace with it. from now on, i'll just deal with it and if there are truly bad parts of my commute, even with RWD and snows, then i'll just rent a FWDer for those few days. end of agonizing. the remaining 360 days of the year are deeply satisfying and have been since i found this out for myself. but it took quite a few cars to figure this out.
2. turbocharging versus natural aspiration. turbocharging is a great make to make power. but tansfaal. the downsides of turbocharging, even as i personally made the odyssey to larger displacement engines with variable valve timing still never completely erased those downsides. and i made this journey from the 2002 WRX all the way to the 2004 STi, which arguably is the epitome of subaru turbocharging in its street cars. in fact, the STi made the 993 obsolete and initiated the process of selling the 993. but there was always something just there missing. it took one more car (or two) to figure out that it was cubic inches. no matter the amount of trickeration such as gearing or smaller turbos or what have you, at the end of the day, if it's a miserably hot day and you're at a redlight at the bottom of a hill, you feel that lack of cubic inches. it's not that there are not downsides to enormous engines because there are, it's just that i'd rather top out at 23mpg on the highway in a v8 than 24mpg in a turbocharged 4 banger.
no set of magazine articles could have told me this so i would believe it and i never could have found out for myself unless i tried the cars. and instead of being flat out miserable on some days in a car that i hate or am lukewarm about, i move on.
i think it's fun.
Who's doing that?
you said you could easily do it--
bring it :dunno:
you said you could easily do it--
bring it :dunno:
Well, I guess this conversation is over. :rolleyes:
John V
09-11-2006, 09:05 PM
Well, I guess this conversation is over. :rolleyes:
It's worthless to argue with a troll - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Ignore him and he goes away.
It's worthless to argue with a troll - he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience. Ignore him and he goes away.
I've been here a lot longer than you and have a lot more free time to continue--not going anywhere
:dunno:
i think it's fun.
I can't think of a better way to sum it up than that. And it's not just the ownership experience. It's researching cars, deciding which scenario best fits your current wants and needs, and test driving. It's like being a kid in a candy store. And as much as I loathe the time spent at the dealership dealing with a salesperson, or filling out delivery paperwork, the rest is all good stuff >> just get me behind the wheel.
rumatt
09-11-2006, 11:36 PM
This thread is :bustingup
On topic: I'm with JV and FC. It's nowhere near as simple as "if you don't like the car, sell it." Would you be upset if you went to the deailer and paid for a 911, and came home in a 325i? Because that's basically what happens if you buy the wrong car a few times before finding the right one. If I'm paying 911 money, I'd prefer to be driving a 911.
Not that this is "wrong", because if you truly get joy from trading often, and it's worth the money to you, then by all means go nuts.
.
rumatt
09-11-2006, 11:46 PM
If I, or Alan, or anyone else wants to buy a new car every year, then so be it.
Key difference: Alan doesn't complain about money. (or about how much he loses on each trade). I think that's why you get more crap for it than he does.
Not that he doesn't get some crap too. But he once admitted (somewhere, in some post) that he's fully aware that he could be driving a 911 for the same money (if he kept it longer) but he doesn't care; he prefers it this way ---- then there was nothing left to make fun of / criticize. :dunno:
.
rumatt
09-12-2006, 12:01 AM
get lost troll
http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/6026/moon4dn.gif
Key difference: Alan doesn't complain about money. (or about how much he loses on each trade). I think that's why you get more crap for it than he does.
Not that he doesn't get some crap too. But he once admitted (somewhere, in some post) that he's fully aware that he could be driving a 911 for the same money (if he kept it longer) but he doesn't care; he prefers it this way ---- then there was nothing left to make fun of / criticize. :dunno:
.
So if I admitted that I don't care that I could be driving a really expensive car for the same money, and that I prefer it that way, then you'd finally get off my back about this? OK, cool.
I realize that I could be driving an expensive car (like a 911) for the same money as I spend trading cars every 1-2 years, but I don't care, and I actually prefer it this way, because I find that fun. And I promise never to complain about poor BMW resale values again.
OK, let's move on, Rumatt. There's no point hashing this out anymore.
And I promise never to complain about poor BMW resale values again.
I guess you are just buying the wrong BMW(s). http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/list/top10/115129/article.html
I guess you are just buying the wrong BMW(s). http://edmunds.nytimes.com/reviews/list/top10/115129/article.html
Now, if the M3 was just available in sedan form. :)
Now, if the M3 was just available in sedan form. :)
It sounds like you'll get your wish on the E90.
It sounds like you'll get your wish on the E90.
The only question is whether it's going to come with a real transmission. From what I've read, it will. But you never know.
The only question is whether it's going to come with a real transmission. From what I've read, it will. But you never know.
I be willing to bet that it will, given that the M5 will now have one. I think the likelihood of a real transmission is higher than the likelihood of an M3/4, frankly.
But at this point the 335i/4 might be all you need in terms of power + utility.
I be willing to bet that it will, given that the M5 will now have one. I think the likelihood of a real transmission is higher than the likelihood of an M3/4, frankly.
But at this point the 335i/4 might be all you need in terms of power + utility.
When I'm now used to the torque of the S2000 and IS250, you're probably right. Heck, even a 328i sedan would be enough, in comparison.
I didn't notice that the M5 was going to get a standard transmission. Cool :cool:
This begs the question, who here would buy an E90 M3/4 if it came to the US and came with a true manual as a tranny option?
I'm going to start another thread with a poll.
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