Older Benzes?

[blee]

I know there's at least one owner of an older MB here.

What experience do you all have with older (1990ish, maybe a few years older, maybe a few years younger) 190s, 300s, and 500s? Looking for info on overall comfort, reliability, etc., especially compared against the Bavarian competition.

[Nick M3]

More comfortable, very solid cruisers.

You may need a friend to help you push the gas pedal, though. (Seriously!)

Stay away from any newer generation car.

[lip277]

Each of those cars has some considerable differences.....

Mercedes model nomenclature is kind of confusing when looking at the older cars. They've cleaned up the model designations greatly when they put the letters in front of the numbers. But before that......

The "190" series of the mid 80's turned into the "C" class we've seen since. The '190' or whatever number relates to the engine size (as in 1.9L). These cars (the 190's) are not too highly thought of in the Mercedes community. There were some serious corners cut to reduce the price of these cars (according to those that say so.... anyway ) I have not any personal experience with these.
The "300" class of the 80's turned into the "E" class. These are a middle of the line in terms of size. Decent cars.
The "500" or 380 or 420 or 560 large cars are the SE or SEL (L for long as in the 740i vs 740iL) I've had two of these cars. A 300SD (TurboDiesel) and now a 420SEL (V8 4.2L gas).

There are some significant differences in the years you are looking at. My 1987 420SEL has mechanical FI. The S420 that came in 1992 had electronic FI and ~50% more power and better economy... but you couldn't give me one....

Let me know if you have any specific questions or curiosities on these....
Knowing what car you're looking at would help-
Take a look here http://www.benzworld.org/modelguide/...sp?chassis=all for a line by line list of all the different engine/chassis combo's.

Note: The chassis numbers are either W (Sedan) or R (Roadster). The engines are given numbers as well.

For example, my diesel was a W126.12 with engine 617.951. The gas car we have now is a W126.035 with engine 116.965. Same basic body (W126) with differences denoted by the numbers after the decimal. The engine numbers also are similar. The 'same' engine in different cars or changed from year to year is noted by differences in the number suffix.

As BMW, you can find the same engine in different chassis styles. The same diesel engine I had was also in the W123.

Have fun and let me know if you have any questions.....

[blee]

Awesome, that's great info!

Basically I'm batting around the idea of finding a nice older car for daily driving. It would have to be much cheaper than my '96 Grand Cherokee in order to justify the switch...but if I want to keep my M3, it's pretty much a requirement. Otherwise the M3 will have to go.

I'd like to keep it for a few years. Four doors is a requirement, and safety is also important. I know it's a stereotype but I see Benzes as being very solid and sound cars, and as long as the mechanicals hold up over time, I would feel safe driving one with passengers in it. Ideally I'd want one bigger than the 190s. A nice S-size car would be great, but not required.

I get the impression that Benzes from that era are generally less finicky than their Bimmer equivalents. As I would be trying to keep costs down, that is a priority over brand loyalty or sportiness.

[FC]

Well, the SEL's from the 80's are just tanks. Nothing sweeter than closing one of those doors.

I obviously have a 1990 190E 2.6.

I drove an even older 190D 2.2 but we got it with 190K miles and had clearly been abused. Nonetheless, it performed well for 40K miles before it died.

I overpaid for my 190E with 108K miles because you could tell it had been babied. It has been VERY trouble free for over 70K miles since. A lot of the earlier 190E bugs clearly were addressed. Still, as lip pointed out, it has a cheap interior. The door panels are sucky, etc. But the engineering is there. Rock solid. Only problem (and this applies to most Benzes) is that the auto trannies tend to get pretty crappy at around 200K. As you know, my car started sucking oil after 125K, for whishc you need to replace the valve stem seals and valve cover.

Anyway, here is a good link:

http://www.mbca.org/pages/tech/MBCA_parts_wear_out.htm

[lip277]

You probably need to figure out what size car you want.
C, E or S class.
Going up in size tends to get you not only more 'size' but amenities as well. Also the newer cars tended to have more 'standard' than the older ones.
Example: my '87 has airbags, ABS and an alarm whereas the '84 didn't have them standard (you could get ABS as an option, the others were NA)

I joked with some co-workers who were giving me a bad time ~10 years back for driving an older car (the '84). They had newer Honda's or Toyota's. Even though those cars had airbags, ABS and the like, I asked them if they'd like to go 'jousting' with me in my Mercedes.

They declined.....
To this day, I'd rather be in any older Mercedes than nearly any generic newer car. I had a neighbor who drove a 1982 240D. He was T-boned by a loaded cement truck. He was in the hospital for about 10 days. The CHP said that if it was any other car, they'd call the Coroner. And that was the small Mercedes.

[bren]

My brother in law has a 1990(1) 300D and it has a very solid/well built feel to it. His has well over 200,000 miles, he bought it from the original owner and neither of them has had to do a bit of work to it. He says the Diesel gets around 30-35MPG on the highway, which IMO sounds damn good considering the mileage on the engine. The interior looks brand new, no wear on the seats and no creaks or rattles. I must admit this car really impresses me.

[FC]

Originally Posted by bren

My brother in law has a 1990(1) 300D and it has a very solid/well built feel to it. His has well over 200,000 miles, he bought it from the original owner and neither of them has had to do a bit of work to it. He says the Diesel gets around 30-35MPG on the highway, which IMO sounds damn good considering the mileage on the engine. The interior looks brand new, no wear on the seats and no creaks or rattles. I must admit this car really impresses me.

Mercedes Diesels are just F'n incredible. That is why if they do decide to offer the E320 CDI wagon, I'll get it (stripped fo course). Despite newer MB's crappy reliability and all.

[blee]

I think I'd want a 300 or larger. I'm concerned that the various goodies that come with the bigger cars will just become bigger liabilities down the road, but I do think that I'd appreciate the extra room over the 190. The back seat in those cars looks to be really low on kneeroom.

Sounds like older Benzes are generally good and solid vehicles. That's great news -- for the same money I could definitely find a newer econocar but I would greatly prefer the vault-like nature of a more substantial vehicle.

[FC]

Originally Posted by blee

I think I'd want a 300 or larger. I'm concerned that the various goodies that come with the bigger cars will just become bigger liabilities down the road, but I do think that I'd appreciate the extra room over the 190. The back seat in those cars looks to be really low on kneeroom.

Sounds like older Benzes are generally good and solid vehicles. That's great news -- for the same money I could definitely find a newer econocar but I would greatly prefer the vault-like nature of a more substantial vehicle.

Without a doubt. And yes, for all practical purposes, the 190E might as well be a coupe. I like it because it's light (under 3000lbs) and I like a snug cockpit, but it is not roomy in the back at all (I also think it's beautiful, but that's just me ). The trunk, however, is enourmous compared to the 330i. I can't fit squat in there. Good luck!