a waffle of a different sort

*clyde* · 06-01-2005, 01:52 PM

Some of you have heard about the world's most expensive vinegar spill in history. For the rest of you, to make a long story short, due to a few ounces of spilled vinegar on the kitchen counter about 8 weeks ago, we are now seriously contemplating two courses of action:

1) Make all of the improvements to the house that we ever wanted to do, such as updating the kitchen, replacing the old drafty windows, replacing the 1960s era wiring throughout the house, refinish the wood floor upstairs, replace most of the carpet downstairs, build a garage and possibly expanding the master bedroom and bath, updating/upgrading the HVAC, etc.

2) Put in the absolute minimum of work/money into the house, sell and buy another house somewhere nearby that better meets our needs.

Our thinking right now is that we should stop anticipating a near future move back to CA and move along with the idea that we're either going to stay in this house, or the next house if we move, at least until our youngest is through with high school (17 years give or take, I guess). If the right job in CA comes along before then, we'll carefully consider all of the pro and cons...and then take our lumps as we move out there.

Option 1 would cost a lot of money...and be a lot more than I'd really like to spend. But the benefit is that we'd ge the house we want with the superduperfantastickickass garage that I want and be able to enjoy it for many years.

Option 2 would be less expensive, but it still wouldn't be cheap. First, a not insignificant sum would vanish into a realtor's pocketbook, then there are the moving expenses, all the fees on the new mortgage, and no matter how close the new house is to our needs, we'll still find ourselves spending quite a bit to make it an even better fit. Some of those expenses will be pretty small, some of them line items that will stand out on their own, but all together it's more than enough to give me pause. And then there's the part about losing the super low unfriggingbeliveable intrest rate that we have right now that would make a similar sized mortgage on another property much more expensive.

By my estimates and WAGs, the front end cost difference between the two options is in the realm of "well, we'd probably be happier with an improved version of our current house...how much is that worth to us?" Comparative financial impact on the back end gets trickier to predict and thus I'm trying not to think about it too much...but... If we did everything that we want to do in Option 1, we won't see much of it back when it eventually comes time to sell. The best we could hope for is that the property would be easier to sell in a down market. If we go with Option 2, I don't think that we'll be able to find the "right house" that we could afford in an area (within the larger DC metro area) we'd be willing to move to that has any better appreciation potential than where we are now.

And that all brings us around to the up front cost differences between the two options and what kind of dollar figure to hang on the value of improvements over the costs of moving. Not really sure what to do other than change the current situation one way or the other... The longer we delay, the more it costs and the longer it will take to get wherever we're going.

Just venting. If anyone has any experiences or insights, please feel free to share...

Roadstergal · 06-01-2005, 02:02 PM

What about location? Does this house or any you would possibly consider be within walking distance to parks, groceries, etc.? Is there decent room for kids to play, bike, rollerskate, whatever in current location vs. potential move locations? Better schools or bus service?

Was it balsamic?

bren · 06-01-2005, 02:13 PM

I'd lean towards option 2 assuming there are houses that fit my wants/needs in an area that I actually want to live in and can afford. Of course my reality is that I will be buying a 60's era house and gutting it.

JST · 06-01-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren

I'd lean towards option 2 assuming there are houses that fit my wants/needs in an area that I actually want to live in and can afford. Of course my reality is that I will be buying a 60's era house and gutting it.

You know what they say about location in real estate.

How happy are you with where you are now? The ONLY reason I would consider option 2 is if there is somewhere in the metro DC area that would be a substantial improvement for you in terms of location, either in terms of something tangible (like schools, or easier access to downtown, etc.) or something intangible but important (like someplace you've always wanted to live).

Otherwise, as you point out, you are going to spend a lot in commissions moving, and you will not find a house that perfectly meets your needs (esp. in this market), and you will have to spend money and effort moving, and you will have to spend money and effort on improvements.

Why not option 1.5? Leave the windows, leave the wiring, refinish the floors, redo the kitchen/bath, and build a stand-alone garage? That'll be cheaper, it'll be money that will be easier to recover on the back end (while everyone might appreciate upgraded wiring, no one is going to pay extra for it), and it will make nearly as a big difference in the curb appeal/saleablility of the house as doing the more major renovation work?

killerdeck · 06-01-2005, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clyde

Option 2 And then there's the part about losing the super low unfriggingbeliveable intrest rate that we have right now that would make a similar sized mortgage on another property much more expensive.

Well maybe this will help. The 10 year treasury hit a low not seen since March 2004 today. It is trading at 3.90% right as I write this. Other than a few months back in Feb - March 2003 it has really not consistently averaged much below 3.75% - 4.00%. So unless your mortgage started in a couple of those months you should be alright getting a loan for relatively cheap even when compared to the last 3 years.

Here is a good idea of what you might pay for a 30 yr fixed in your area:

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/updates/...=mtg,M,1,DC,20

FC · 06-01-2005, 02:59 PM

I say option 1. Moving is really horrible for all the obvious reasons, and if you could be happy remodeling the house, do it. Location, of course, is the most important thing. If you are reasonably happy where you are, I say fix it up.

The only way we are moving out of our house is if we really want and can afford luxuries we dont have in our house AND if adding said luxuries would be throwing money down the tube because the house could not "support" those enhancements upon resale or would just look ridiculous. In that case we're better off moving elsewhere.

Save for the school system, (which isn't bad, just not amazing) our location is excellent. So maybe we'll consdier moving before our kids hit High School, or send them to private school (I'd rather not for many reasons). But that is MANY years away.

*clyde* · 06-01-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

Quote:

Originally Posted by bren

I'd lean towards option 2 assuming there are houses that fit my wants/needs in an area that I actually want to live in and can afford. Of course my reality is that I will be buying a 60's era house and gutting it.

You know what they say about location in real estate.

How happy are you with where you are now? The ONLY reason I would consider option 2 is if there is somewhere in the metro DC area that would be a substantial improvement for you in terms of location, either in terms of something tangible (like schools, or easier access to downtown, etc.) or something intangible but important (like someplace you've always wanted to live).

Otherwise, as you point out, you are going to spend a lot in commissions moving, and you will not find a house that perfectly meets your needs (esp. in this market), and you will have to spend money and effort moving, and you will have to spend money and effort on improvements.

Why not option 1.5? Leave the windows, leave the wiring, refinish the floors, redo the kitchen/bath, and build a stand-alone garage? That'll be cheaper, it'll be money that will be easier to recover on the back end (while everyone might appreciate upgraded wiring, no one is going to pay extra for it), and it will make nearly as a big difference in the curb appeal/saleablility of the house as doing the more major renovation work?

re: option 1.5... Refinishing the floors is something that we would do ourselves at minimal cost. The windows and HVAC are a quality of life issue that we need to resolve if we stay. Cost of rewiring is a drop in the bucket compared to the major stuff. The bedroom/kitchen would probably be left alone if we do a detached garage. We could make the bathroom look nicer, but it would still be too small. Also, if we do the kitchen today, it will still look old and be crying for another redo in 15 years.

The object of making improvements would be to make the place the place we want to stay.

We like the location, and it should only get better with time. but we could probably find another place that takes care of nearly everything...leaving only the ability to add a lift to that house's garage out in the cold.

(sigh)

Nick M3 · 06-01-2005, 03:22 PM

Speaking purely out of self-interest, I say you need a lift.

*Plaz* · 06-01-2005, 03:27 PM

I'd put a lift in our garage if the ceilings weren't so low. As it is, a lift would lift my car into my daughter's room.

*clyde* · 06-01-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M3

Speaking purely out of self-interest, I say you need a lift.

Which is why you will be part of the cheap labor crew I will be assembling to do a lot of the work, if we go that route.

06-01-2005, 01:52 PM	#1
clyde Chief title editor Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 26,599	a waffle of a different sort Some of you have heard about the world's most expensive vinegar spill in history. For the rest of you, to make a long story short, due to a few ounces of spilled vinegar on the kitchen counter about 8 weeks ago, we are now seriously contemplating two courses of action: 1) Make all of the improvements to the house that we ever wanted to do, such as updating the kitchen, replacing the old drafty windows, replacing the 1960s era wiring throughout the house, refinish the wood floor upstairs, replace most of the carpet downstairs, build a garage and possibly expanding the master bedroom and bath, updating/upgrading the HVAC, etc. 2) Put in the absolute minimum of work/money into the house, sell and buy another house somewhere nearby that better meets our needs. Our thinking right now is that we should stop anticipating a near future move back to CA and move along with the idea that we're either going to stay in this house, or the next house if we move, at least until our youngest is through with high school (17 years give or take, I guess). If the right job in CA comes along before then, we'll carefully consider all of the pro and cons...and then take our lumps as we move out there. Option 1 would cost a lot of money...and be a lot more than I'd really like to spend. But the benefit is that we'd ge the house we want with the superduperfantastickickass garage that I want and be able to enjoy it for many years. Option 2 would be less expensive, but it still wouldn't be cheap. First, a not insignificant sum would vanish into a realtor's pocketbook, then there are the moving expenses, all the fees on the new mortgage, and no matter how close the new house is to our needs, we'll still find ourselves spending quite a bit to make it an even better fit. Some of those expenses will be pretty small, some of them line items that will stand out on their own, but all together it's more than enough to give me pause. And then there's the part about losing the super low unfriggingbeliveable intrest rate that we have right now that would make a similar sized mortgage on another property much more expensive. By my estimates and WAGs, the front end cost difference between the two options is in the realm of "well, we'd probably be happier with an improved version of our current house...how much is that worth to us?" Comparative financial impact on the back end gets trickier to predict and thus I'm trying not to think about it too much...but... If we did everything that we want to do in Option 1, we won't see much of it back when it eventually comes time to sell. The best we could hope for is that the property would be easier to sell in a down market. If we go with Option 2, I don't think that we'll be able to find the "right house" that we could afford in an area (within the larger DC metro area) we'd be willing to move to that has any better appreciation potential than where we are now. And that all brings us around to the up front cost differences between the two options and what kind of dollar figure to hang on the value of improvements over the costs of moving. Not really sure what to do other than change the current situation one way or the other... The longer we delay, the more it costs and the longer it will take to get wherever we're going. Just venting. If anyone has any experiences or insights, please feel free to share... __________________ OH NOES!!!!!1 MY CAR HAS T3H UND3R5T33R5555!!!!!!1oneone!!!!11 Team WTF?! What are you gonna do?

06-01-2005, 02:02 PM	#2
Roadstergal Butting in. Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 4,553	What about location? Does this house or any you would possibly consider be within walking distance to parks, groceries, etc.? Is there decent room for kids to play, bike, rollerskate, whatever in current location vs. potential move locations? Better schools or bus service? Was it balsamic? __________________ The question is not whether I've treated you rudely, but whether you've ever heard me treat anyone else better. -H. Higgins

06-01-2005, 03:22 PM	#8
Nick M3 Relic Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Bethesda, MD Posts: 12,458	Speaking purely out of self-interest, I say you need a lift. __________________ 2011 M3 2006 Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison 2004 X5 3.0i 6MT 1995 M3 S50B32 1990 325is 1989 M3 S54B32 Hers: 1989 325iX 1996 911 Turbo

06-01-2005, 03:27 PM	#9
Plaz ••••••• Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M Location: Churzee Posts: 17,741	I'd put a lift in our garage if the ceilings weren't so low. As it is, a lift would lift my car into my daughter's room. __________________ 2011 1M

06-01-2005, 02:13 PM	#3
bren lawn boy Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: e46m3, f25x3,C5 Z06, C4 Vette, 06 CTD Ram, and a trailer Location: Maryland Posts: 14,029	I'd lean towards option 2 assuming there are houses that fit my wants/needs in an area that I actually want to live in and can afford. Of course my reality is that I will be buying a 60's era house and gutting it.

06-01-2005, 02:59 PM	#6
FC Solving problems Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: M5 / 718 GTS / Cooper S / GTI / LR4 Location: Metro Boston Posts: 25,266	I say option 1. Moving is really horrible for all the obvious reasons, and if you could be happy remodeling the house, do it. Location, of course, is the most important thing. If you are reasonably happy where you are, I say fix it up. The only way we are moving out of our house is if we really want and can afford luxuries we dont have in our house AND if adding said luxuries would be throwing money down the tube because the house could not "support" those enhancements upon resale or would just look ridiculous. In that case we're better off moving elsewhere. Save for the school system, (which isn't bad, just not amazing) our location is excellent. So maybe we'll consdier moving before our kids hit High School, or send them to private school (I'd rather not for many reasons). But that is MANY years away.