Fuck Tesla

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

they continue to make the best EVs out there, by a large margin.

How much longer do you think that will last?

My direct experience, like almost everyone in the world, is close to zero with electric cars and I only know what I read/watch online. In the past 12 months, I've gotten the sense that Tesla's lead has begun to shrink. In the past three months, it's been looking like that shrinkage has been rapidly accelerating.

It seems like the manufacturers that know how to actually build cars are figuring out how to make the electric car thing work and they're all clearly heading there in big ways.

Also, the graves of business history are quite full of companies, people, and formats that were the "best."

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by clyde

How much longer do you think that will last?

My direct experience, like almost everyone in the world, is close to zero with electric cars and I only know what I read/watch online. In the past 12 months, I've gotten the sense that Tesla's lead has begun to shrink. In the past three months, it's been looking like that shrinkage has been rapidly accelerating.

It seems like the manufacturers that know how to actually build cars are figuring out how to make the electric car thing work and they're all clearly heading there in big ways.

Also, the graves of business history are quite full of companies, people, and formats that were the "best."

I'm confident that Tesla can survive. But there's no way that Tesla replaces the auto industry or justifies its stock value.

[robg]

Originally Posted by JST

Yes, this is stupid. I am deeply irritated by nearly everything to do with Tesla's corporate governance. I am further irritated by the fact that all of this nonsense aside they continue to make the best EVs out there, by a large margin.

Do they? If so, not in ways that I care about:
-Charging network: Yes, they are ahead for now but others are catching. And frankly, relying on a charging network for all your charging needs (not just for long trips) is going to be painful w/ any EV (Tesla or not). Also as more EVs adopt CCS style connectors, Tesla is the odd one out (again in the US atleast) with their proprietary network. If you regularly travel long distances on corridors where Tesla supercharging is more prevalent, than sure. Certainly not my situatoin and I doubt many people fall into that narrow category.
-Range: Yes in claimed range, but as we've seen the real world ranges for some recent EVs such as Mach E, Taycan, etc are neck in neck with Tesla. TBD on how much real world range their 500 mile range for the Plaid Model S actually gets
-Performance: In a very limited sense, sure, they are the masters of posting impressive 0-60 times. To me this is more of a party trick than anything useful or desirable.
-Tech: They make a big deal about Autopilot but, while their assisted driving suite may offer some features that are a bit ahead of other companies, I don't care-- I have next to zero trust in Tesla to deliver these types of features in safe manner. As far as the other "unique" features they tout such as built-in netflix, youtube, video games-- I have a hard time getting excited about that. THey still lack some basic and useful tech featues such as surround view and a real blind spot system (in the mirrors vs having to look at a screen).

[equ]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

I'm confident that Tesla can survive. But there's no way that Tesla replaces the auto industry or justifies its stock value.

This. I was less confident when their stock (pre-split) was $250ish and Elon was tweeting (illegally and falsely) about a $420 private offer. At this point, they have so much market value that they will always be a (major) player (not to mention their lead in batteries, US chargers and being EVl trend-setters). As to whether they are worth more than several larger companies put together, I'm going to go with a 'No' on that. But the market doesn't care; anything and everything must be bid up.

[dan]

I've shorted 10,000 shares of TSLA on y'all's investment advice

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by dan

I've shorted 10,000 shares of TSLA on y'all's investment advice

[Josh (PA)]

looks like you'll be getting a lucid studio in Tyson's Corner if you want to jump ship to a Lucid Air

https://www.lucidmotors.com/uq398wd0hel/

[JST]

Originally Posted by robg

Do they? If so, not in ways that I care about:
-Charging network: Yes, they are ahead for now but others are catching. And frankly, relying on a charging network for all your charging needs (not just for long trips) is going to be painful w/ any EV (Tesla or not). Also as more EVs adopt CCS style connectors, Tesla is the odd one out (again in the US atleast) with their proprietary network. If you regularly travel long distances on corridors where Tesla supercharging is more prevalent, than sure. Certainly not my situatoin and I doubt many people fall into that narrow category.
-Range: Yes in claimed range, but as we've seen the real world ranges for some recent EVs such as Mach E, Taycan, etc are neck in neck with Tesla. TBD on how much real world range their 500 mile range for the Plaid Model S actually gets
-Performance: In a very limited sense, sure, they are the masters of posting impressive 0-60 times. To me this is more of a party trick than anything useful or desirable.
-Tech: They make a big deal about Autopilot but, while their assisted driving suite may offer some features that are a bit ahead of other companies, I don't care-- I have next to zero trust in Tesla to deliver these types of features in safe manner. As far as the other "unique" features they tout such as built-in netflix, youtube, video games-- I have a hard time getting excited about that. THey still lack some basic and useful tech featues such as surround view and a real blind spot system (in the mirrors vs having to look at a screen).

IDK; the charging network is a huge advantage, so much so that going from a Tesla to anything else at this point would be like going back in time.

But overall? Tesla makes cars that do EV things better than competitive EVs at a similar price. That might change, but it hasn't yet--and people have been saying for 10 years that that change was just around the corner.

The Mach E gets closest, but while there are ways it's better than a Model Y (and it's certainly prettier), overall it's just not a better EV.

[robg]

Originally Posted by JST

IDK; the charging network is a huge advantage, so much so that going from a Tesla to anything else at this point would be like going back in time.



But overall? Tesla makes cars that do EV things better than competitive EVs at a similar price. That might change, but it hasn't yet--and people have been saying for 10 years that that change was just around the corner.



The Mach E gets closest, but while there are ways it's better than a Model Y (and it's certainly prettier), overall it's just not a better EV.

Yeah can definitely see how the charging network is an advantage for now - just seems less and less like a reason to choose a Tesla unless you are going to regularly rely on super chargers. Let’s say it makes 5% of my driving 20% more convenient; that’s a 1% improvement overall that is easily overshadowed by other things I might care about

What other EV things do they do better? Seems like other recent competitors do a better job of being good cars..


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[kognito]

Originally Posted by dan

I've shorted 10,000 shares of TSLA on y'all's investment advice

And Plug and Blink calls?