My brother is waffling (A4 2.0T Q / Legacy GT / other)

[John V]

My brother and his girlfriend are looking to buy a new DD to replace the Mazda 626 (V6 / 5sp) they've been driving. i think it has 150k ish miles on it. Turbo cars get extra bonus points because they live at altitude (7,500 feet or so)

So far he has driven an A4 2.0T Quattro with a manual. He wasn't terribly impressed. He said the seats were uncomfortable, the car was mushy and sluggish in turns, felt very heavy, and there was a lot of turbo lag. And neither he nor his g/f like the interior.

They both like the LGT a lot more. There was still turbo lag, but not as much as with the Audi. He says the car felt much lighter, the seats were all-day comfortable, the car was faster, and it was cheaper.

Next cars on the list are leftover 2006 Mazdaspeed 6s and the Acura TSX (even though it'll be a 150hp pig at altitude).

Other suggestions? :dunno: No RWD cars - the g/f doesn't like driving them in snow.

[ff]

I just wonder how well the Speed6 is going to do in the snow, even with AWD. It comes with summer tires, has an aggressive clutch, a terribly vague/sloppy shifter, and the Turbo comes on strong after the initial lag. Not a good combination when you're trying to climb an icy hill. I wouldn't be driving it on anything but dry asphalt.

I haven't driven the LGT before, but I have driven the A4, and it's much more tame. I have a feeling that the LGT is probably equally as tame, and maybe a better fit?

[JST]

They probably don't want to spend the money on a 335xi.

Saab 9-3?

I think the LGT is likely the best choice; the things that annoyed me about it have mostly been fixed, except for the odd failure to fit a 6 speed manual except in the high-zoot version (seriously, how many other cars at that price point make do with a 5M?).

[rautox]

I think you've got that niche covered. LGT, MS6. TSX doesn't seem like a good fit with the rest of that group.

[lemming]

one new thing in the Legacy is that ESP is standard now across the board.

[equ]

07+ have folding rear seats. I know that 07 Spec.B has stability, not sure if regular 07's do... I do think it's not fair that only the Spec.B gets the really nice shifter - I care less about the 5 vs. 6 ratios but the Spec.B shifter is Honda-good.

[John V]

The first thing they'll do is buy a set of steel wheels for it with a set of proper snows mounted up. My brother's DD is a Miata, which trudges along just fine in the snow with proper tires. I suspect the Speed6 would do okay with proper tires.

I agree the TSX is not a good fit, but he is all about driving everything he can get his hands on, so it's on the list somehow.

335xi is way too expensive for them. They have the fun car (Elise) for the fun days, this is a daily slog kind of machine here.

He was talking some sort of insanely good deal on the LGT (they get an additional discount for being members of some rock-climbing club - Subaru is odd) so I have a feeling that is what they will end up with.

I'll keep y'uns posted.

[lemming]

i wish mazda would put the speed6 engine in something decent. instead of overworked FWD cars and minivans.

but i digress.

it's not that the LGT is that great, but it's damn competent.

[Jeff_DML]

legacy has less turbo lag then the vwag 2.0T:confused:

but legacy spec b vote for me

[JST]

legacy has less turbo lag then the vwag 2.0T:confused:

but legacy spec b vote for me

Yeah, I kind of wondered about that too. Maybe the VAG engine's lag is worse at altitude? I've never really perceived any noticeable lag from the 2.0T.

[John V]

legacy has less turbo lag then the vwag 2.0T:confused:

but legacy spec b vote for me

He says the turbo lag of the 2.0T was really distracting, and there were other issues with it - the revs hang after you lift off, for one. And dynamically, the car just didn't impress. :dunno:

The spec.B is a waste of money.

[ff]

the revs hang after you lift off, for one.

This seems to be the latest trend with manual trannies (BMW excluded, for now...). The Lexus ended up being so bad with respect to rev hangs, that the car was practically undriveable. Something that wasn't evident on my test drives because the engines were so tight.

The Civic hangs slightly, but it then drops quickly enough and has close enough gear ratios that the shifting action is still very close to natural.

The rev hang deal might very well be the final nail in the manual transmission coffin. Manufacturers will make them less and less enjoyable to drive, until finally we just give up the fight, and buy slushies.

[John V]

e-mail from my brother:

"I test drove a TSX last night. It was not what I expected. I thought the
engine and transmission were great - much more powerful and torquey than I
expected. I liked its handling a lot more than the Legacy's. I couldn't
find a comfortable seating position, and it felt a lot larger than I
expected. I think that feeling had to do with the dash. Overall, if I
could find a comfortable seating position I think it would be my first
choice in the dry. We had an awful winter from mid-December through March,
and that raised our interest in AWD. I wonder if shocks or shocks + springs
could make the Legacy handle significantly better. I keep going back and
forth between the two. The power, seats, and AWD point me toward the
Legacy, while the handling, features, transmission, lack of turbo lag and
reliability point me toward the TSX. "

[equ]

The spec.B is a waste of money.

To each his own. For me the spec.B is worth every penny...

It gets a much more snick-snick shifter with a 6th cog good for the hwy, firmer shocks, better tires, nicer interior and some doodads.

[John V]

To each his own. For me the spec.B is worth every penny...

My point was that you can build it all yourself for a fraction of the price.

[Sharp11]

My point was that you can build it all yourself for a fraction of the price.

Hey John,

I know this is a stretch, but Acura RL's have sold so poorly, there're quite a few really nice, low mileage examples for sale around here in the mid to high 30's.

AWD, V6 and a nice solid car.

Something to consider in what seems to be not much more than the Spec B price range.

Ed

[John V]

I don't think you can get the RL with a stick. Also the Spec.B is not an option - too expensive.

[JST]

Hey John,

I know this is a stretch, but Acura RL's have sold so poorly, there're quite a few really nice, low mileage examples for sale around here in the mid to high 30's.

AWD, V6 and a nice solid car.

Something to consider in what seems to be not much more than the Spec B price range.

Ed

No stick; that sounds like a requirement.

A used TL might be an option, though it sounds like they want a new car. New 6M TLs are way overpriced, since you have to buy the dumb Type S package to get a stick.

But another possibility is the V6 6M Accord, which I couldn't bring myself to test drive because I actually felt drowsier the closer I got to the car, but which might be sort of fun to drive. Well, "fun to drive" is a bit relative, but it's a pretty big motor.

[John V]

We talked about Hondas last night (he's down in Tysons for business - made me realize once again how much I hate Tysons.. almost got killed three times by cell-phone talking Paris Hilton wannabes driving Range Rovers). He plans to drive a V6 6M Accord and a Civic Si (assuming the 4-door becomes available).

Issues with the Civic - they both hate the rear wing (as do I) but I suggested that he might be able to get the dealer to swap trunks with another Civic and sell that Civic with a *bonus* wing. It could work. He would also try to get them to swap out the tires for something of the high performance summer variety since Honda likes to use the crappiest tires in existence on their cars. They buy winter tires on steelies for the snowy months anyhow.

I have driven an Accord V6 6M Coupe and it is not what I would describe as "fun." Mostly because of the tires, but it was also just so piggy and front-heavy. I kept thinking that it might be more fun with (gasp) the smaller motor.

[rautox]

Handling with any of his selections is an easier fix than adding foul weather ability. He might just be a set of camber plates and swaybar away from being happy with the lgt. If he's open to the aftermarket...

Even with the stiff suspension, my wrx w/snows wouldn't stop until it started dragging.

OTOH, the new si's pretty nice, too.

[John V]

He really hates the turbo lag with the turbo cars, and was really enamored with the TSX's handling. For him, buying cars is a several year process (no kidding) so I'm not expecting a purchase anytime soon.

Plus the 626 keeps chugging along. :lol:

[Sharp11]

I have driven an Accord V6 6M Coupe and it is not what I would describe as "fun." Mostly because of the tires, but it was also just so piggy and front-heavy. I kept thinking that it might be more fun with (gasp) the smaller motor.

Can one get the coupe with the 4 cylinder?

I've driven the 4 cylinder sedan and quite liked it, the seats were comfortable, the handling reasonably sharp and the motor surprisingly smooth, torquey and responsive.

Fun? No, but a cut above the Camry experience.

The problem I have with Japanese cars in general (Subies, too) is the lightness of the controls - I can't rest my foot on the gas pedal without the car taking off - drives me nuts, but my wife loves this :(

In my BMW, it takes a deliberate push on the gas pedal and an even more deliberate push on the clutch to get things going. The shifter is firm as is the steering. I like that.

Ed

[Jeff_DML]

the TSX is up for a redo soon aint it? seems a bit long in the tooth. Hoping they dump the RDX drivetrain into the new one, sh-awd with that turbo 4 could be fun.

[Sharp11]

the TSX is up for a redo soon aint it? seems a bit long in the tooth. Hoping they dump the RDX drivetrain into the new one, sh-awd with that turbo 4 could be fun.

I think so. The TSX is really just an Accord sold everywhere else in the world, so whatever the cycle is on the redesign for that car I'd imagine will be the same on the TSX - provided Honda decides to keep bringing it in as an Acura.

Ed

[lemming]

i'd rather have some turbo lag than an anemic engine at altitude. that would drive me insane.

[equ]

I've driven a tsx - back in fall 04. To me it didn't compare to the LGT - which is a very lovable car.

[John V]

i'd rather have some turbo lag than an anemic engine at altitude. that would drive me insane.

I agree to an extent, but he was really sold on the handling and overall feel of the TSX over the LGT.

They're both certainly still on the table as I understand it.