ZBB's waffling begins [Archive]

ZBB

01-23-2007, 07:19 PM

Well... I've been thinking of replacing the '03 530 in the next 6-12 months... I've had it almost 2 years, put 24k miles on it (its just over 47k now). Its been a great car, but its starting to feel old...

One of the possible replacments is a Saturn Sky Red Line, so I took my first step to inquire about one this afternoon. Saturn of Scottsdale's internet mgr emailed back saying they are taking deposits ($500), but that the wait list is "1-2 years" for any Sky! I knew there was a wait list, but didn't realize it would be that long. I also expected that GM supplier pricing would not apply, and he confirmed that it is MSRP only for now. I'm going to have to think about this...

In the meantime, here's the initial list of replacement cars, in alphabetical order. It is a bit varied...

BMW 335 coupe
BMW 335 or 328 cab (haven't seen pricing yet)
BMW X5
Cadillac CTS (would wait for 2008s), probably with the 300hp V6
Porsche Boxster (base, with a couple minor options)
Pontiac G8 (see * below)
MB E320 Bluetec
Saturn Sky

* I would only consider ordering a G8 if I could confirm what it would cost to de-Pontiac it. I'm guessing it will take ordering a grille/bumper, badges, air bag cover, wheel hub inserts, etc from Australia. I may need to call in a favor from my co-workers down under...

BahnBaum

01-23-2007, 07:25 PM

* I would only consider ordering a G8 if I could confirm what it would cost to de-Pontiac it. I'm guessing it will take ordering a grille/bumper, badges, air bag cover, wheel hub inserts, etc from Australia. I may need to call in a favor from my co-workers down under...

So if you like a car enough to own it, you wouldn't own it simply because of the nameplate? :dunno:

Alex

Sharp11

01-23-2007, 07:25 PM

ZBB

01-23-2007, 07:33 PM

So if you like a car enough to own it, you wouldn't own it simply because of the nameplate? :dunno:

Alex

Partly... but its mostly looks -- I like the look of the Holden, and am scared what they'll do to Pontiac-ify it. GM's done it before to imported product where the original styling was better than the restyling done to make it fit into their US branding:

Example 1 - Opel Omega to Cadillac Catera... I thought the Omega looked better (especially the rear)

Example 2 - Holden Monaro to Pontiac GTO... I never thought the Pontiac grille looked right on it -- which is why I worry about the Commodore to G8 move...

We'll see how it looks after the Chicago Auto Show premier.

ZBB

01-23-2007, 07:35 PM

A bit varied? I'll say.

Yeah :dunno:

I'm actually surprised that I listed 3 GM products on that list though...

BahnBaum

01-23-2007, 07:35 PM

Partly... but its mostly looks -- I like the look of the Holden, and am scared what they'll do to Pontiac-ify it.

Oh, ok, I misunderstood. I thought your changes were just badging.

Alex

ZBB

01-23-2007, 07:40 PM

I'd still highly recommend a Z4 to anyone who doesn't have issues with its styling - it's one of the best handling (and most fun to drive) cars the marque has ever made - test drive an si or an M and you'll see.

Ed

Problem is that the styling turns me off. I like parts of it -- particular the front-back fender line that is very reminiscent of old British roadsters (Jag XK-120 and XK-140s in particular). But the zorro slash, grille, headlights, flabby hood and duckbill trunk turn me off. I also used to frequently drive a Z3 (not mine, but I put ~10k miles on my mom's old '98 Z3 1.9), and I don't want to ruin those memories.

lemming

01-23-2007, 10:05 PM

your best bet in the interim is going to be a short lease on a 335i --it's going to hold its value well enough for the lease to be reasonable, and then all of these vaporware cars will be real.

:dunno:

most of the cars on your list are simply too hard to assess because of difficulty to even test (solstice GXP/sky redline), non-existence (CTS genII, G8).....and i'd not really recommend anyone to buy a 'new' porsche unless you know you're going to pay the serious bucks to get the options you want and then keep the thing for awhile.

ZBB

01-23-2007, 10:47 PM

your best bet in the interim is going to be a short lease on a 335i --it's going to hold its value well enough for the lease to be reasonable, and then all of these vaporware cars will be real.

:dunno:

Possibly... However the E39 is a CPO car, so it still has 2 years of warranty coverage -- so I'm not looking to move immediately.

The problem lately has been that not many cars on the market have been that interesting to me -- which is why my list includes so many vaporware cars...

The 335i could be interesting though... Especially since I could do ED again, and I know I'd be able to get one for ~1200 over ED invoice (and I could easily plan a short side trip to Munich on one of my visits to Europe for work)...

JST

01-24-2007, 08:35 AM

Possibly... However the E39 is a CPO car, so it still has 2 years of warranty coverage -- so I'm not looking to move immediately.

The problem lately has been that not many cars on the market have been that interesting to me -- which is why my list includes so many vaporware cars...

The 335i could be interesting though... Especially since I could do ED again, and I know I'd be able to get one for ~1200 over ED invoice (and I could easily plan a short side trip to Munich on one of my visits to Europe for work)...

Coming from a 530, you won't be disappointed in anything about the E90 other than size (and styling, interior and exterior); it's a bit narrower and I'm pretty sure the trunk is smaller.

Other than that, it handles as well or better, and the 335 will rock your world in a straight line.

My only advice from the practical side is to wait a few months after you have the baby to see what (if any) need you have for a back seat in the new car. 8 or 9 months ago, I envisioned being able to get a 2 seater, because I figured we'd take the kid in my wife's car if we were going someplace. For a variety of reasons, that turned out to be unworkable. I wouldn't pull the trigger on a 2 seater until you are really sure that you can do it.

rumatt

01-24-2007, 10:34 AM

03 [...] but its starting to feel old

Meaning you're tired of it? Or that it now feels like a rattly old car?

bren

01-24-2007, 11:02 AM

Meaning you're tired of it? Or that it now feels like a rattly old car?

Meaning the shocks and or bushings are gone and it's getting sloppy I'd guess.

John V

01-24-2007, 11:04 AM

It's a BMW. Does it have more than 35k on it? The shocks are toast.

ZBB

01-24-2007, 11:06 AM

Meaning you're tired of it? Or that it now feels like a rattly old car?

Not necessarily tired of it... Its starting to feel like an old car -- Its a 10+ year old design (even though my car is not quite 4). I just get and old car feeling after I drive the X3, and then get back into the E39. It really doesn't rattle much though (it has an occasional rattle in the dash somewhere -- shows up 1-2 times a month, and another rattle in the passenger front door that I've only heard 3-4 times).

ZBB

01-24-2007, 11:07 AM

It's a BMW. Does it have more than 35k on it? The shocks are toast.

You're probably right... its at 47k miles...

equ

01-24-2007, 11:36 AM

Come to think of it. My new-to-me e39 (7 years, 56k miles) feels pretty loose and far from tight/sporty, sport package notwithstanding. May have sth to do with the 225/55 snow tires but I may have to do shocks/bushings to get that "feel" back... I guess I'm going to wait for spring and see if 235/45 tires on original wheels are an improvement.

The second zhp I had, I bought at 24k miles. I drove it until 29.5k and did not feel a hint of looseness/wear. I don't see how it would have been toast at "35k".

equ

01-24-2007, 11:40 AM

Other than that, it handles as well or better, and the 335 will rock your world in a straight line.

My only advice from the practical side is to wait a few months after you have the baby to see what (if any) need you have for a back seat in the new car. 8 or 9 months ago, I envisioned being able to get a 2 seater, because I figured we'd take the kid in my wife's car if we were going someplace. For a variety of reasons, that turned out to be unworkable. I wouldn't pull the trigger on a 2 seater until you are really sure that you can do it.

+1. But as usual, JST is making an understatement. I haven't driven the e90 & e39 back to back for a good reason. My guess would be that it would make me trade it in on the spot. The e90 330 is a damned good handler. If you really push it, it shines. (I didn't drive the 335 as hard but somehow enjoyed it a bit less, of course it makes up in other ways :D)).

John V

01-24-2007, 11:56 AM

BMW's factory shocks are notoriously terrible. Sometimes they last longer, but... not typically.

ZBB

01-24-2007, 12:54 PM

BMW's factory shocks are notoriously terrible. Sometimes they last longer, but... not typically.

Any recomendations on good replacements? I've never had to do a shock replacement on a car, so this would not be DIY. The car is SP equipped, and I'm not interested in anything special (would want ride similar to new)...

ZBB

01-24-2007, 12:56 PM

+1. But as usual, JST is making an understatement. I haven't driven the e90 & e39 back to back for a good reason. My guess would be that it would make me trade it in on the spot. The e90 330 is a damned good handler. If you really push it, it shines. (I didn't drive the 335 as hard but somehow enjoyed it a bit less, of course it makes up in other ways :D)).

My mom has an E90 325... I've only driven it a couple times, and it does feel lighter and smaller than the E39. I like the E90 shifter feel -- shorter through than the long throw on the E39. But I haven't driven the 328 or 335...

Sharp11

01-24-2007, 01:07 PM

My mom has an E90 325... I've only driven it a couple times, and it does feel lighter and smaller than the E39. I like the E90 shifter feel -- shorter through than the long throw on the E39. But I haven't driven the 328 or 335...

I've driven the E39, E90 325/330 and E92 in both 328 and 335 trim.

The E90 325 with SP was a nice handling car, the turn in felt quick, but the ride was poor on rf's.

The 330 was a nice, very nice, mid sized luxury car (it was the non sp model).

Neither E92 I drove had SP, the 328 was kind of a snooze while the 335 was fun and had a nice engine note. Clearly, the 335i has the "it" factor in this range, but I didn't like it enough to buy it :dunno:

My E39 drives were so long ago, I can't really recall much about them except the body structure felt really tight, the seats comfy and compared to the E46, it felt much less sporty.

Ed

BahnBaum

01-24-2007, 01:29 PM

JST

01-24-2007, 01:33 PM

Any recomendations on good replacements? I've never had to do a shock replacement on a car, so this would not be DIY. The car is SP equipped, and I'm not interested in anything special (would want ride similar to new)...

Don't spend the money. The typical 5 series buyer won't know/care that the shocks could use a replacement, so you won't get the money out of the car. If you are thinking about something new anyway (and it sounds like you are) just sell the 5er and move on.

ZBB

01-24-2007, 01:39 PM

Don't spend the money. The typical 5 series buyer won't know/care that the shocks could use a replacement, so you won't get the money out of the car. If you are thinking about something new anyway (and it sounds like you are) just sell the 5er and move on.

I think I'll at least look into it. If I decide to keep the car for another year or so, I'd get the benefit...

bren

01-24-2007, 02:16 PM

Any recomendations on good replacements?

Koni FSD or Bilstein HD.

BahnBaum

01-24-2007, 02:18 PM

Koni FSD or Bilstein HD.

Mark and I are talking about FSD's for his e36.

Alex

bren

01-24-2007, 02:29 PM

Mark and I are talking about FSD's for his e36.

Alex

There is a group buy on Bimmerforums (they'll do Eibach springs as well.)

Go to the end for contact info.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=611090

Theo

01-25-2007, 10:57 AM

There is a group buy on Bimmerforums (they'll do Eibach springs as well.)

Go to the end for contact info.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=611090

Man I just looked. Thats a pretty good deal.

GSR13

02-05-2007, 11:16 PM

You know, from an enthusiast standpoint, I really enjoyed driving the Z4. It does drive very well in my opinion, comparing directly to the Z3 we owned. That said, I could never live with that car day to day. I detested driving the car with the top up. No matter how hard I tried, I could not get comfortable in it. The doors were too high and if I raised the seat to make up for it, there was no headroom.

As for doing a family car and a two-seater, it can work if you plan accordingly. Got a friend of mine and he and his wife have two children. They also have an F-150 Crew Cab and a Crossfire Convertible. They do have the advantage of working close to home, within a couple of miles, and they also own a business together. Those things help, but regardless you can make it work.

If you are still considering a two-seater convertible, I obviously say you should give the S2000 a test drive.

ZBB

06-23-2007, 09:02 AM

Bumping my own thread..

I've been thinking of replacing the '03 530 in the next 6-12 months...

In the meantime, here's the initial list of replacement cars, in alphabetical order. It is a bit varied...

BMW 335 coupe
BMW 335 or 328 cab (haven't seen pricing yet)
BMW X5
Cadillac CTS (would wait for 2008s), probably with the 300hp V6
Porsche Boxster (base, with a couple minor options)
Pontiac G8
MB E320 Bluetec
Saturn Sky

My waffling feelings have returned, and I'll be looking to replace the E39 sometime in August or Sept.

Some changes to the list are:
- No 2 seaters. I think we could live with only 1 family car, but it will be easier to have 2 cars that can take a child seat
- The E93s are just too expensive -- I can't justify a $10k premium for a cab
- Don't want to wait for the G8. New CTS probably won't be out yet either
- We've decided that an X5 is the likely replacement for the X3 when that lease is up in a couple years. Plus, I'd only consider it with a diesel, and timing hasn't been announced (knowing BMW it will be Sept SOP, so not in dealers until Oct/Nov).

That pretty much leaves the E92 and MB Bluetech -- which is not much choice.

So I decided to take a look at the new G35 sedans, and did a quick test drive yesterday. I'm really impressed overall. The 6-speed has very precise, quick throws (and an incredibly short shifter), the clutch had nice feel but had a rather sharp engagement point (would take a bit getting used to -- but only since the E39 has a softer engagement). Overall, it felt a lot like a 9/10s scale E39 (its a bit narrower, and the back seat is slightly smaller). I could tell it had more power than the 530, but it really didn't feel like 300+ HP (probably because the torque rating is ~260). Controls were intuitive -- and I easily figured out how to change radio stations. The tester had Nav, and the interface seems to work fairly well...

You could feel the relative unrefinement of the V6 compared to BMWs inline 6s, but it was really only on heavy acceleration. The trunk only has a small pass-through and the rear seats do not fold down (which is a nice feature -- but less important to us now that we have the X3).

I still need to test the 335i (BMW North Scottsdale has a sedan with stick on the floor, so I may ask for a test drive this weekend).

06-23-2007, 09:50 AM

The new G35 is growing on me. I think it is very nice improvement visually (in and out) or the last one.

I still doubt you would pass on the 335i though, unless the $$$ is huge.

lemming

06-23-2007, 12:34 PM

be really curious to see how you like the 335i.

Sharp11

06-23-2007, 12:44 PM

That pretty much leaves the E92 and MB Bluetech -- which is not much choice.

So I decided to take a look at the new G35 sedans.......

Why not wait till August and drive the G37, it's the coupe version of the G35 and a more direct competitor to the E92?

I'd like to take one out myself, to me it seems an attractive choice especially at the price.

Ed

ZBB

06-23-2007, 05:18 PM

Why not wait till August and drive the G37, it's the coupe version of the G35 and a more direct competitor to the E92?

I'd like to take one out myself, to me it seems an attractive choice especially at the price.

Ed

I don't like how small the current G35 coupe's back seat is -- and the photos of the new G37 don't make it seam any bigger. The G35 coupe is also very hard to access the back seat.

I used to have an E46 coupe -- and the E92's back seat is similar size or bigger (although its now purely a 2-place rear seat with a console in the middle, while the E46 could fit 3 people in a pinch).

As for E90 vs E92, I much prefer the styling of the E92, and could live with fewer doors. For the G35/37, I think I'd prefer 4 doors...

ZBB

09-02-2007, 10:40 AM

be really curious to see how you like the 335i.

Well, I finally got off my butt and test drove a 335 on Friday. The dealer closest to me only had a sedan in stock with stick, so that's what I test drove. All I have to say is WOW, that engine is incredible. If I could just get over the E9x interior styling, the 335 coupe may be at the top of the list.

A good friend of mine is demanding that I test the new CTS before making a decision, I probably won't have a chance to for another couple weeks (I have a couple trips for work...), but they are starting to trickle into showrooms. However - unless GM offers some good introductory lease specials on it, I don't think it will price out well compared to the 335. I costed one up on Edmunds, optioned how I would get it, the CTS is about the same as doing ED on a 335. Considering how much lower the residual on a CTS is likely to be, it may make it a tough sell.

The G35 is still in the running, but more as a value play -- even optioned fairly heavily, the G35 is ~$4k less than an ED 335. The residual is lower, but not much, so it leases fairly well.

We'll see -- probably will make a decision in late Sept... And I need to get the 530 prepped to sell (it needs a bath, and I managed to pick up a couple minor door dings that I need to pull out)

JST

09-03-2007, 11:02 AM

Well, I finally got off my butt and test drove a 335 on Friday. The dealer closest to me only had a sedan in stock with stick, so that's what I test drove. All I have to say is WOW, that engine is incredible. If I could just get over the E9x interior styling, the 335 coupe may be at the top of the list.

A good friend of mine is demanding that I test the new CTS before making a decision, I probably won't have a chance to for another couple weeks (I have a couple trips for work...), but they are starting to trickle into showrooms. However - unless GM offers some good introductory lease specials on it, I don't think it will price out well compared to the 335. I costed one up on Edmunds, optioned how I would get it, the CTS is about the same as doing ED on a 335. Considering how much lower the residual on a CTS is likely to be, it may make it a tough sell.

The G35 is still in the running, but more as a value play -- even optioned fairly heavily, the G35 is ~$4k less than an ED 335. The residual is lower, but not much, so it leases fairly well.

We'll see -- probably will make a decision in late Sept... And I need to get the 530 prepped to sell (it needs a bath, and I managed to pick up a couple minor door dings that I need to pull out)

See?

After a while, you get used to (read as: start ignoring) the interior. And I have to give BMW this--other than the asinine window switches, everything works really well. I particularly like the climate control knobs, which have one detent for each degree and make adjusting temperature without taking your eyes off the road very easy.

Sharp11

09-03-2007, 11:25 AM

I particularly like the climate control knobs, which have one detent for each degree and make adjusting temperature without taking your eyes off the road very easy.

Moving from essentially the same climate control-system as yours (in the z4) and back to the E46's, it's like groping in the dark once again .....

The 328xi sedan BMW brought to Lime Rock was quite nice, comfy sport seats, nice driving position, everything within easy reach - I could get used to the interior in short order.

Ed

lupinsea

09-04-2007, 08:36 PM

Knobs rule!

Sharp11

09-04-2007, 08:51 PM

Knobs rule!

I've told this story before, so at the risk of redundancy.....

Years ago, musical instrument manufacturers who built synthesizers (moog, arp, roland etc.) built them with lots of knobs and switches.

During the high tech 80's and the shrinking of micro-processors in the early 90's, those knobs, switches and sliders were replaced with multi-layerd menus buried under small displays - want to change a sound by reducing its volume? Easy, menu 1b6, scroll down through the list of 36 choices, find volume.......eh, you get the idea.

Musicians HATED this and screamed for the knobs to return - they have, mostly (there are still a few too many hidden functions on most gear).

You can see where the menu-driven proponents come from; easy to upgrade software and features, clean design and best if not least, cheap to manufacture.

But for the player who wanted to "grab a knob in the heat of the moment..." (tee hee).

Ed

zeroday

09-07-2007, 09:33 PM

I've told this story before, so at the risk of redundancy.....

Years ago, musical instrument manufacturers who built synthesizers (moog, arp, roland etc.) built them with lots of knobs and switches.

During the high tech 80's and the shrinking of micro-processors in the early 90's, those knobs, switches and sliders were replaced with multi-layerd menus buried under small displays - want to change a sound by reducing its volume? Easy, menu 1b6, scroll down through the list of 36 choices, find volume.......eh, you get the idea.

Musicians HATED this and screamed for the knobs to return - they have, mostly (there are still a few too many hidden functions on most gear).

You can see where the menu-driven proponents come from; easy to upgrade software and features, clean design and best if not least, cheap to manufacture.

But for the player who wanted to "grab a knob in the heat of the moment..." (tee hee).

Ed

I used to work for Ensoniq and you're 100% right. When analog synths turned digital, the knobs went away and musicians got frustrated. Ensoniq was the worst when it came to crappy convoluted interfaces. I still haven't figured out all the submenus on my mirage.

Sharp11

09-07-2007, 10:52 PM

I used to work for Ensoniq and you're 100% right. When analog synths turned digital, the knobs went away and musicians got frustrated. Ensoniq was the worst when it came to crappy convoluted interfaces. I still haven't figured out all the submenus on my mirage.

Ha, that's great, you really worked for them?

Those guys had a great product in the old ASR10, I loved that synth. Then I bought the DP2 and DP Pro processors, but the company went belly up :(

What did you do there? I'm impressed.

Ed

equ

09-08-2007, 06:52 AM

Same design issue with cameras...

My old minolta film camera (that was stolen in africa) had knobs that I could turn without looking.

Love my '05 Canon XT, but a few important settings, such as iso & wb, are buried in menus. For a digicam, iso & wb are controls that should be as reachable as aperture & shutter.

ZBB

09-08-2007, 06:08 PM

Back on topic...

I test drove the new CTS today. The car I tested had Direct Injection (so 306 HP), the FE3 suspension, automatic (manuals are not out yet -- sales guy said they are orderable, with deliveries in mid Oct), Nav, but no sunroof.

I have to say the new CTS is a fantastic car. It did feel more isolated than the 335, and while it obviously has a lot of power (its not slow by any means), it didn't feel as powerful as the 335. My only complaint was that the steering is slightly overassisted at low speeds (parking lot and left turns), but at speed it felt fine (not at all like the 2001 BMW experiement as the ultimate parking machine that I had on my E46).

The interior of the new CTS is georgeous -- everything felt good, was easy to use, etc (although the turn signal knob did have a small vestiges of old GM clunkiness). The nav screen extends up for full nav display, or can be retracted, with ~1 inch visable as the place with the radio info on it (pretty cool -- you can keep the nav down unless you need nav). The nav is touch-screen (there's also a scroll knob with a push button). The audio system has XM (with traffic for Nav), and has a 40GB hard drive for storing music (and can buffer XM for an hour). About the only toy not included is a bluetooth phone connection (phone is avail via OnStar) -- however, one of the magazine reviews said BT was beeing added "soon" (I'd prefer to have BT).

I have to say this is going to be a hard decision. Its still between the 335i (coupe), CTS and G35. I'll need to price out a lease on the CTS -- I have GM S-plan pricing avail (supplier), but I'm worried residual will be too low to make it lease well.

Here's the summary on the 3 cars:
335: Best engine, worst interior, least 'toys' (there's no way in hell I'll order a car with iDrive). Would probably do ED, but that also means longest lead time

CTS: Best looking of the 3, best interior of the 3, also may be priciest if heavily optioned. Most likely will have lowest residual -- so won't lease as well. No Bluetooth connection (for now)

G35: Still the value play -- least expensive even with all the toys. Has Bluetooth. Residual only slightly below the 335, so leases fairly well.

Rob

09-10-2007, 12:39 PM

If you happen to have Verizon as your carrier, you can add the On-star equipment as a phone for $10 a month. It was the best car phone I ever had when I had it.

On the other hand, the bluetooth connection in the mini van (toyota) is just as good and doesn't cost anything. I don't know how good the current bmw bluetooth is, but some of the systems out there sound horrible.

ZBB

09-10-2007, 07:34 PM

The problem is that I have no interest in using Verizon on switching to them
1) I need a GSM carrier for global coverage. Verizon does have a couple combo phones that allow global roaming, but its a pretty limited selection.
2) Verizon has a history of disabling phone features -- GSM, Bluetooth, etc.

The lack of BT on the CTS may be a deal killer -- I frequently am on conference calls on the way in to work (2-3 days a week), so bluetooth is a feature I'd require. Forcing customers to only one carrier is not the way to grow the brand...

JST

09-10-2007, 11:27 PM

ZBB

09-11-2007, 01:20 AM

Why not a stand alone BT accessory, like a headset or a speakerphone for the car? I've never used one, but they're cheap and probably worth a try before you decide on a new car based on presence or absence of BT.

Because I have BT integration now in the E39, and not having it would be annoying (especially since my wife's X3 has BT)...

Because that would make me get angry at GM for not including BT every time I see the Nav screen say "dial 602-555-1093" on an entry.

Because I've had a BT headset for years -- and I always forget to recharge it, so its never charged and I never used it.

JST

09-11-2007, 09:05 AM

Because I have BT integration now in the E39, and not having it would be annoying (especially since my wife's X3 has BT)...

Because that would make me get angry at GM for not including BT every time I see the Nav screen say "dial 602-555-1093" on an entry.

Because I've had a BT headset for years -- and I always forget to recharge it, so its never charged and I never used it.

Well, I can't help the first two, but if you got a BT speakerphone thingy for the car you could probably hardwire it.

zeroday

09-11-2007, 11:56 AM

Ha, that's great, you really worked for them?

Those guys had a great product in the old ASR10, I loved that synth. Then I bought the DP2 and DP Pro processors, but the company went belly up :(

What did you do there? I'm impressed.

Ed

Sorry for the late response. Just saw your post. I loved the asr-10! Samplers rule! I worked there for about 3 years (1994-1997) for the multimedia division doing tech support, BBS administration (remember those?)and OEM training for their sound cards. I was the guy that used to train techs at Dell and Gateway etc how to support their sound cards. It was a really fun company to work for when they weren't having lay offs, which was often. I had a rack full of keyboards in my cubicle(asr10, ts-12, MR-61) which I had hooked up to cakewalk pro audio sequencer software on my PC via mpu-401 and whatever down time we had we were allowed to make songs etc. I used to work in the same room as the musical instruments support guys so they'd always help me out with any issues i had with my setup. I did mostly a bunch of techno type songs back then.

They actually didn't go belly up, they were bought buy Creative Labs who basically fired everyone and dismantled the company. :(

Rob

09-11-2007, 12:55 PM

Forcing customers to only one carrier is not the way to grow the brand...

They aren't forcing you to use only Verizon. You can also buy time directly from On-Star. It's not nearly as practical as $10/month to access the cell phone time you are already paying for though. It's also pre-pay which woul pretty much kills the idea for a weekly conference call for me.

The lack of blue tooth IS stupid and they are probably trying to force you to use On Star. I was just throwing out another option if you haven't thought about it.

ZBB

10-13-2007, 06:00 PM

Update:

I've essentially decided on the CTS. Just received a quote from one of the dealer's internet guys. GM's current lease programs on the CTS are fairly decent -- 59% residual for a 36 month lease, 58% for a 39 month, which is better than the 335 (58% for 36 month) and G35 (57% for 36 month). The money factor is slightly higher than BMW's, so the net impact makes the 335 and CTS lease about the same (the cap cost on both cars is within $500 of each other based on how I would spec it).

The dealer has essentially the car I'd like in stock -- only thing is that its a slushie, and I'd prefer the manual. Order lead time is ~8 weeks to get the manual. However, all the reviews state the the manual isn't that great and the center armrest is too high with the cupholders in the way. I'm going to debate over the weekend and may go test drive this specific car on Mon.

As for the lack of BT, I'm still a little annoyed with that. I'll try the prepaid package -- but $15 for 100 minutes would only last 1-2 weeks of conference calls. GM has announced that a "Bluetooth Pack" will be a dealer-installed option -- but very little info has been released about it, and the GM posting on it says that they are investigating a "more comprehensive" solution -- which means that this is probably just a separate box for BT, with no integration into the CTS's infotainment system...

Rob

10-15-2007, 12:34 PM

Wait for the manual if you like them. It might not be the best manual in the world, but the worst manual is better then the best automatic if you want to really be in control of the car. Just think about how much shorter that lead time is then the BMW lead times . . .

ZBB

11-10-2007, 05:33 PM

Well, I almost bought an '08 CTS last night... Only problem is that they were incredibly lowballing the trade on the '03 530... If I wasn't trading, I could have had the lease numbers work exactly as I calced before hand. I wasn't expecting a great offer on the 530, but they were not going to give me the same lease terms if I traded the 530 vs not trading it. I only went in since they had a car very similar to how I would have ordered one, and I figured that if I got a decent enough offer on the trade I would have done it.

So I'm going to put the 530 on the market in a couple weeks, and hopefully it will sell. At that point, I'll go lease a CTS -- and I'm considering putting in an order next week (which would probably be Jan delivery)...