View Full Version : Future wagon waffling continues - Why not a 540iAT?
The more I think about it, the more I'm liking the thought of a 540iAT to replace the Saabaru when the time comes. A set of narrow WS-50's might do the trick in the winters - even in Canada. Thoughts?
--------------------------
What I was originally going to post:
I know I'm still 6-12 months away, but I've been thinking about possibilities for the family wagon... again. (Yes, I know I've had similar threads before).
You know the requirements by now:
-Automatic
-Roomy enough to fit a full-sized male lab and luggage in the way back
-A solid performance vehicle (power, torque, braking, handling). The more the merrier
-Must get through snowy weather fine (AWD preferable - required?)
-Must have high marks in comfort/luxury/amenities.
-I must trust it to not leave me stranded.
-Fuel economy/consumables are not a big deal due to low usage (under 10K miles a year).
The contenders are the usual suspects:
1) '06-'07 V70R - Price in '07: ~$30-40K.
-PROS: Newish, available long warranty, great brakes, good power/torque, good tranny, roomy, safe, AWD, decent handling, great interior/features.
-CONS: Low ground clearance/long front overhang, lag, only 2.5L, unreliable(?), FWD-biased AWD.
2) '05-'07 Outback 3.0R LL Bean - Price in '07: ~$25-30K.
-PROS: Newish, great AWD, "cheap," good ground clearance, reliable, decent power/torque, good range per tank.
-CONS: Not so upsacale, smallish, mediocre brakes and tranny, mediocre handling.
3) '02-'03 540iAT - Price in '07 ~$25-30K
-PROS: V8 torque, good power, good handling/brakes, great interior/features, good tranny, unliekly to strand me, roomy enough, RWD, "cheap."
-CONS: RWD-only, thirsty, not new (maintenance/repairs), just roomy enough.
4) '02-'03 E320W 4-Matic - Price in '07: ~$25K
PROS: Cheap, very roomy, AWD, Great interior features.
CONS: Unreliable(?), weak power/torque, maintenance/repairs.
-Late model E-wagons are too expensive and/or unreliable to consider.
-I should probably look ata used allroad V8 or A6 Avant just for kicks, but.
I would never get it unless I could also afford a tranny swap.
why not? because it will be old
I would never get it unless I could also afford a tranny swap.
I know. But I more likely to sell my wife on the idea of a RWD, slushy wagon than an AWD-MT wagon.
lemming
10-05-2006, 04:38 PM
is it easy to take a dog from the US into Canada and back into the US again?
No stick, old, expensive to maintain, thirsty on gas, not that big inside, not really that fast by contemporary standards. If you are going to get a slushie, why not a Magnum? Those come in AWD, too.
Frankly, if you are going to get a slushie, the thing that probably makes the most sense is a used Acura MDX. Those things (while disturbingly boring and something I would never buy) are almost perfect transportation appliances, and an '02 can be yours for less than $20K.
I know you have heard me say this over and over again, but the Magnum has very little useable cargo room for it's size. The cargo numbers are deceiving b/c the design team went out of their way to make sure as little of it was useable as possible.
Still a neat car though. And it has a Hemi. :p
clyde
10-05-2006, 06:17 PM
I know you have heard me say this over and over again, but the Magnum has very little useable cargo room for it's size. The cargo numbers are deceiving b/c the design team went out of their way to make sure as little of it was useable as possible.
Still a neat car though. And it has a Hemi. :p
Not entirely true. It's kind of oddly shaped which does limit the shape of the cargo you can take, but if you don't need a big basic square (think 32" tube TV box), it will work most of the time. I can only think of one thing I've ever taken in the xiT that wouldn't have fit in the Magnum.
Not entirely true. It's kind of oddly shaped which does limit the shape of the cargo you can take, but if you don't need a big basic square (think 32" tube TV box), it will work most of the time. I can only think of one thing I've ever taken in the xiT that wouldn't have fit in the Magnum.
I can't expect my dog to not stand in the 5-hour trip to Montreal. The Magnum is to shallow in the back, and I cannot stack things very high.
lemming: Under 3 months, apparently all I need to do is show I own him an dthat he has had his basic shots. After 3 months, you need something from your vet. So for now, we're good.
The MDX-route, which opens a whole set of possibilities, is a more realistic scenario than a Magnum because: 1) My wife hates how it looks ("retarded" was how she described it, I beleive), 2) it is not "upscale," and 3) as I've mentioned before, it is not that roomy.
And if we go the SUV route, I would almost certainly go the whole way and get a used Land Cruiser.
old, expensive to maintain, thirsty on gas, not that big inside, not really that fast by contemporary standards.
Yes, those are all bad. The thirsty part not for the $$$ (again, it wont be driven enough to make a huge difference), but for the relatively short range.
Ok, well, thanks for bringing me back to reality.;)
Actually Fernando, if you put everything else you carry in the back seat, I think the back area will be fine for 1 dog and might be very desireable size wize for him. The problem is if you bring his crate and he is not in it, your luggage space just got toasted. If you put the seats down, he will be licking your ear or something.
Clyde, I have put tons of stuff in the V70 that won't fit in the Magnum. The first problem is that we have two big dogs. One will fit I think. Two will not. But other stuff just won't fit in the magnum b/c of the plastic on the sides and the wheel wells. Granted, the V70 is not in the same league power wise or performance wise as either the Dodge or the BMW, but it sure is a better hauler.
Actually Fernando, if you put everything else you carry in the back seat, I think the back area will be fine for 1 dog and might be very desireable size wize for him. The problem is if you bring his crate and he is not in it, your luggage space just got toasted. If you put the seats down, he will be licking your ear or something.
I guess I expect, naively perhaps, that as an adult, my dog will either: a) be crazy enough that I need to bring a crate for him - in which case, he would travel IN the crate, or b) well-behaved enough that he can travel without a crate - in which case I wont need to bring a crate at all.
:dunno:
clyde
10-05-2006, 07:32 PM
The problem is if you bring his crate and he is not in it, your luggage space just got toasted.
roof rack (although I'd bet that's too ghetto for FC's wife ;))
Clyde, I have put tons of stuff in the V70 that won't fit in the Magnum. The first problem is that we have two big dogs. One will fit I think. Two will not. But other stuff just won't fit in the magnum b/c of the plastic on the sides and the wheel wells. Granted, the V70 is not in the same league power wise or performance wise as either the Dodge or the BMW, but it sure is a better hauler.
The V70 is is that perfect box shape. Most wagons (including the E46T, E39T and Magnum) are not (or at least haven't been since the days of the full size GM B Body based wagons).
roof rack (although I'd bet that's too ghetto for FC's wife ;))
:lol: No, she'd be fine with that. But it is less than desirable to put stuff up there. We'd probably get one of those no matter what car we get.
SARAFIL
10-05-2006, 09:34 PM
And if we go the SUV route, I would almost certainly go the whole way and get a used Land Cruiser.
I've been driving a '04 Land Cruiser for the past few days... it's a really solid car, but it's big and heavy. If I needed a big SUV, I'd probably want to settle for something a bit lower to the ground and with a lower center of gravity that was a bit easier to drive.
I've been driving a '04 Land Cruiser for the past few days... it's a really solid car, but it's big and heavy. If I needed a big SUV, I'd probably want to settle for something a bit lower to the ground and with a lower center of gravity that was a bit easier to drive.
I've driven one too. Yes, it is a beast. It is slow. It has crappy fuel economy. It is also a very comfy luxury vehicle with tons of room, outstanding practicality, safe, andwill get you through any weather.
The only reason the thought has crossed my mind is because they can be had used for reasonable money and last forever and are absolutely, positively rock-solid reliable and most importantly, would not be driven often (not a daily driver).
But it is just too bulky, clumsy, and dynamically inferior to really consider.
I tell ya, right now I'm really looking forward for the F11 (next gen 5er Touring) with the 3.0L TT. But that appears to be 4-5 years away so we'll need something to get us there.
rumatt
10-06-2006, 01:45 AM
Why is the saabaru on the way out already?
Why is the saabaru on the way out already?
Not yet. Until we have a kid the Saabaru stays, basically. No, no kid news yet. We may end up keeping the Saabaru for 2 more years if kid plans don't work out as hoped.
But the Saabaru can handle a grown lab (with seats dropped) or a kid, but not both. At least not with any sort of luggage or without making the dog uncomfortable (and assuming he does not need a crate).
wdc330i
10-06-2006, 11:16 AM
[QUOTE=clyde;118692]roof rack (although I'd bet that's too ghetto for FC's wife ;))
Our dog crate (medium sized) fits fine in our Yakima Space Cadet.
Sharp11
10-06-2006, 11:49 AM
.
But the Saabaru can handle a grown lab (with seats dropped) or a kid, but not both. At least not with any sort of luggage or without making the dog uncomfortable (and assuming he does not need a crate).
Go to your nearest Acura dealer, walk right past the MDX and set your eyes on the new turbo charged RDX.
Edmunds gets a 65 plus mph time through the slalom, faster than many cars - thanks to the company's "super all wheel drive" handling.
It's the right size, it's relatively cheap (32-35 US) and it's fast.
What's not to like?
Well, perhaps a couple of things: it's kind of ugly and it's heavy and thirsty. But that's about it - I'd certainly check it out.
Ed
Go to your nearest Acura dealer, walk right past the MDX and set your eyes on the new turbo charged RDX.
Edmunds gets a 65 plus mph time through the slalom, faster than many cars - thanks to the company's "super all wheel drive" handling.
It's the right size, it's relatively cheap (32-35 US) and it's fast.
What's not to like?
Well, perhaps a couple of things: it's kind of ugly and it's heavy and thirsty. But that's about it - I'd certainly check it out.
Ed
That's a good idea. The CX-7 drives pretty well for what it is, too, and is cheaper than the RDX.
Sharp11
10-06-2006, 12:22 PM
That's a good idea. The CX-7 drives pretty well for what it is, too, and is cheaper than the RDX.
That's a good one, as is the company's CX9 (which I suppose will be Cayenne sized?).
We could add, even though it's likely slow, the new CRV to the list - it seems just about right for what it is AND it'll be cheap to run (on regular gas).
Ed
Josh (PA)
10-06-2006, 01:31 PM
I love my wagon ('01), but there are times when 7 seats would be really useful. JST mentioned it's not that fast, I'd disagree. It is quite fast, especially when passing at speeds, considering its size/weight (as in no problems keeping up with 350z type sports cars). It is super comfortable, great with kids/dogs and handles really well (for its size). If you're biggest hauling concern is your dogs, the back area is great. I have a 100lb Doberman and a 50lb Golden Retreiver and they fit well enough to stand and turn around with the rear seats up. If I fold the seats and move the dog net to the front edge of the rear seats they have enough room to get themselves in trouble.
It isn't cheap to maintain (I've averaged 18mpg and had more than routine maintenance requirements) but it is a car that will just eat up miles.
I love my wagon ('01), but there are times when 7 seats would be really useful. JST mentioned it's not that fast, I'd disagree. It is quite fast, especially when passing at speeds, considering its size/weight (as in no problems keeping up with 350z type sports cars). It is super comfortable, great with kids/dogs and handles really well (for its size). If you're biggest hauling concern is your dogs, the back area is great. I have a 100lb Doberman and a 50lb Golden Retreiver and they fit well enough to stand and turn around with the rear seats up. If I fold the seats and move the dog net to the front edge of the rear seats they have enough room to get themselves in trouble.
It isn't cheap to maintain (I've averaged 18mpg and had more than routine maintenance requirements) but it is a car that will just eat up miles.
(I am in Montreal now)
I cant imagine the 540iAT being slow with 340lb-ft from a V8. In a family vehicle I basically want as much torque as I can get and good enough hp to move it along at high speeds.
3rd-row seats have little appeal in the near future. I drove the Mazda CX-7 at the Zoom Zoom Live event. Good for what it is, but not my cup of tea. It drove well when pushed hard (which is nice), but I want something that is superb in moderate driving, where the family vehicle will spend most of its life. I DO, of course, want it to handle well when pushed hard as well. Call me closed-minded, but again, I rather not own an SUV if I can help it. I really dont like driving them (or pick-ups).
Semi-OT: Everytime I drive the Saabaru to Canada, Im reminded that some things you just have to pay for. Like superb sound insulation and and high-speed composure. The Saabaru is just loud for 5 hours of 75mph+ driving. We brought a few things over (folded crate and pen, two mediam bags, and a recycling bin worth of dog stuff + camera gear and the car was full with the dog in the front passenger footwell. Were he grown, Ive no idea where he would have gone.
*Damn French keyboard! I cant find the apostrophy key!:mad: *
That's a good one, as is the company's CX9 (which I suppose will be Cayenne sized?).
We could add, even though it's likely slow, the new CRV to the list - it seems just about right for what it is AND it'll be cheap to run (on regular gas).
Ed
The Ford Edge/Lincoln MKX are worth a look--they and the CX9 share most of their DNA, and I noticed while browsing for my father than the Edge/CX9/MKX have similar EPA mileage figures to the CX-7, but have a bigger engine (3.5L six) with more power and torque AND they run on regular gas. Vaporware until November, though.
Josh (PA)
10-07-2006, 08:14 PM
(I am in Montreal now)
I cant imagine the 540iAT being slow with 340lb-ft from a V8. In a family vehicle I basically want as much torque as I can get and good enough hp to move it along at high speeds.
3rd-row seats have little appeal in the near future. I drove the Mazda CX-7 at the Zoom Zoom Live event. Good for what it is, but not my cup of tea. It drove well when pushed hard (which is nice), but I want something that is superb in moderate driving, where the family vehicle will spend most of its life. I DO, of course, want it to handle well when pushed hard as well. Call me closed-minded, but again, I rather not own an SUV if I can help it. I really dont like driving them (or pick-ups).
Semi-OT: Everytime I drive the Saabaru to Canada, Im reminded that some things you just have to pay for. Like superb sound insulation and and high-speed composure. The Saabaru is just loud for 5 hours of 75mph+ driving. We brought a few things over (folded crate and pen, two mediam bags, and a recycling bin worth of dog stuff + camera gear and the car was full with the dog in the front passenger footwell. Were he grown, Ive no idea where he would have gone.
*Damn French keyboard! I cant find the apostrophy key!:mad: *
The wagon is so good at those long trips. It just devours highway miles. The only problem is its sweetspot seems to settle in right around 90mph, which can be dangerous to your license. FYI, I run 16" Nokian snow tires in the winter here in PA and I had no problems getting around in any of the snow we have. We had one good deep storm last year and I was out before the roads were plowed with no problems at all.
lip277
10-07-2006, 10:52 PM
In the for what it's worth camp - I greatly would favor the E39 V8 (M62) car.
Then again - That's just me.
:D
In the for what it's worth camp - I greatly would favor the E39 V8 (M62) car.
Then again - That's just me.
:D
We will test-drive it for sure. It will likely come down to decision factoring aquisition cost and maintenance/repairs.
I still think the front runner is the V70R. On paper it is just too good for the money. But a brutal turning radius, ride quality, small displacement FI-engine, reliability issues, and a crazy long/low front overhang weigh in the back of my mind.
I like it a lot. (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=1500&sortorder=descending&sortfield=DISPLAY_BODYSTYLE+descending%2CPRICE+des cending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7CE-%7CM-_5_%7CD-_38_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-DISPLAY_BODYSTYLE+descending%2CPRICE+descending%7C Q-descending%7CZ-02021&aff=national&paId=206258622&leadExists=true) If only it had black interior and weren't so expensive. Is that ///M body kit part of the sport pkg or a separate option?
Hard to find 540iT's with the sport pkg. Even harder on ewith black interior. Sand does not look bad though ...and it could hide my dogs hair easier than black.
Oh well, I have time.
lip277
10-09-2006, 10:07 PM
Glad you liked it. As to the specifics of the E39...???
I don't really know.
One thing I've done in looking at used cars...
I get a sales brochure(s) covering the cars/years I am thinking of to answer questions like this.
I usually grab one of a car when they are new (figuring I might be in the market at a later date) or...
I've even bought ones off e-Bay for this (like the Ford SuperDuty and Excursion activity I recently had... $5 usually covers those 'domestic' items... BMW/Mercedes usually are more as they are literally small books ...)
And - speaking of such...
I might have a late model E39 brochure out in storage. I'll try to look in the next few days...
(FWIW - I think I have 4 or 5 bankers boxes full of these things... :D )
Glad you liked it. As to the specifics of the E39...???
I don't really know.
One thing I've done in looking at used cars...
I get a sales brochure(s) covering the cars/years I am thinking of to answer questions like this.
And - speaking of such...
I might have a late model E39 brochure out in storage. I'll try to look in the next few days...
(FWIW - I think I have 4 or 5 bankers boxes full of these things... :D )
I keep souveneir brochures as well - just never picked up 5er brochures. If you could find out, that would be great.
I keep souveneir brochures as well - just never picked up 5er brochures. If you could find out, that would be great.
I think I might have one.
I think I might have one.
Cool.
I like it a lot. (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&searchType=21&cid=&dlid=&dgid=&amid=&pageNumber=0&numResultsPerPage=50&largeNumResultsPerPage=1500&sortorder=descending&sortfield=DISPLAY_BODYSTYLE+descending%2CPRICE+des cending&certifiedOnly=false&criteria=K-%7CE-%7CM-_5_%7CD-_38_%7CN-N%7CR-10000%7CI-1%7CP-DISPLAY_BODYSTYLE+descending%2CPRICE+descending%7C Q-descending%7CZ-02021&aff=national&paId=206258622&leadExists=true) If only it had black interior and weren't so expensive. Is that ///M body kit part of the sport pkg or a separate option?
Hard to find 540iT's with the sport pkg. Even harder on ewith black interior. Sand does not look bad though ...and it could hide my dogs hair easier than black.
Oh well, I have time.
As the owner of an '03 E39 with Sport package... I'll chime in here.
That one looks to have the Sport Package since it has the ///M steering wheel. I believe the '03 540 sport package also included part of the ///M body kit (at least the front bumper). The '03 530s do not have that (it has a regular '03 bumper, but does have the ///M wheel and gear shift along with the rest of the sport package features.
Cool.
I have a 2003 5-series Sport Wagon brochure. What would you like me to do with it?
I have a 2003 5-series Sport Wagon brochure. What would you like me to do with it?
Well, ideally, it would be cool if you could scan the spcifications/options pages.
But if you could just post the relevant option contents, that would be good enough.
If you are so inclined, you could mail it to me, but I don't want to bother you. It's not like I'm making a decision on the car soon. Just do whatever is easiest for you - and that includes doing nothing.
Anyway you go, thanks very much!:D
Wow, I just spent some time at the 'fest looking up upkeep costs/issue son E39 540's and let me tell you, it is a bit scary. I knew of the whole cooling system failure thing. And other than fuel/tires/brakes/alignment I thought the car was pretty rock solid. But there seem to be MAF/O2/Cat issues, some OBC pixel failure, and misc smaller things.
Not to say this is unexpected, but many people claim to budget ~$200 a month for upkeep. That is a steep price tag for a car that will cost $30K and I'm giving up AWD. I might as well get a new V70R for $40K or under and have 4 years of warranty. I just don't have that much time for DIY repairs beyond basic maintenance, and it is bound to get worse in years to come.
Just rambling...
Well, ideally, it would be cool if you could scan the spcifications/options pages.
But if you could just post the relevant option contents, that would be good enough.
If you are so inclined, you could mail it to me, but I don't want to bother you. It's not like I'm making a decision on the car soon. Just do whatever is easiest for you - and that includes doing nothing.
Anyway you go, thanks very much!:D
I'll scan some pages tonight and post them. It might be late, though.
Wow, I just spent some time at the 'fest looking up upkeep costs/issue son E39 540's and let me tell you, it is a bit scary. I knew of the whole cooling system failure thing. And other than fuel/tires/brakes/alignment I thought the car was pretty rock solid. But there seem to be MAF/O2/Cat issues, some OBC pixel failure, and misc smaller things.
Not to say this is unexpected, but many people claim to budget ~$200 a month for upkeep. That is a steep price tag for a car that will cost $30K and I'm giving up AWD. I might as well get a new V70R for $40K or under and have 4 years of warranty. I just don't have that much time for DIY repairs beyond basic maintenance, and it is bound to get worse in years to come.
Just rambling...
Frankly, in the family hauler category, outside of SUV/SAVs, the V70R is the only choice for the enthusiast. The combination of reasonable fuel economy, safety, space, performance, AWD, availability with a stick, etc. is just unbeatable--there isn't anything out there that comes close.
If you can sacrifice the AWD and stick, the V70 T5 is a reasonable choice and will save you some money.
Frankly, in the family hauler category, outside of SUV/SAVs, the V70R is the only choice for the enthusiast. The combination of reasonable fuel economy, safety, space, performance, AWD, availability with a stick, etc. is just unbeatable--there isn't anything out there that comes close.
If you can sacrifice the AWD and stick, the V70 T5 is a reasonable choice and will save you some money.
Nope. If we go the Volvo route, it will be the V70R. I just have to get it with a slushie, unfortunately. Plus, the Volvo's rear boxiness comes in very handy for tall cargo, like a grown dog (they also sell a neat, factory metal dog divider - there is a video on their website).
Nope. If we go the Volvo route, it will be the V70R. I just have to get it with a slushie, unfortunately. Plus, the Volvo's rear boxiness comes in very handy for tall cargo, like a grown dog (they also sell a neat, factory metal dog divider - there is a video on their website).
You should strike a deal- you will only cooperate on having kids if she learns to drive stick.
No stick, no... um... er... stick?
lip277
10-10-2006, 05:08 PM
Wow, I just spent some time at the 'fest looking up upkeep costs/issue son E39 540's and let me tell you, it is a bit scary. I knew of the whole cooling system failure thing. And other than fuel/tires/brakes/alignment I thought the car was pretty rock solid. But there seem to be MAF/O2/Cat issues, some OBC pixel failure, and misc smaller things.
Not to say this is unexpected, but many people claim to budget ~$200 a month for upkeep. That is a steep price tag for a car that will cost $30K and I'm giving up AWD. I might as well get a new V70R for $40K or under and have 4 years of warranty. I just don't have that much time for DIY repairs beyond basic maintenance, and it is bound to get worse in years to come.
Just rambling...
Other than the fuel pump - There have been no surprises at all on our E38.
I also had to replace the audio amp - But I knew of that going in.
ANY car can have issues. And... For every one 'horror story' you hear about any car, there are dozens and dozens going without issue.
FYI - I had a Ford Explorer (1994 with 200,000 miles).
If you read the Explorer forums, you'd think you would be stuck on the corner with 'this or that' every couple of weeks.
In all my time with that truck - All I had to replace was the fuel pressure regulator and radius arm bushings.
That's it. Period.
The thing is to go in with an open set of eyes and find yourself the most pristine example you can afford and go out from there.
Then again - that applies to just about any used car experience - I'd guess.
You should strike a deal- you will only cooperate on having kids if she learns to drive stick.
No stick, no... um... er... stick?
LOL
Other than the fuel pump - There have been no surprises at all on our E38.
I also had to replace the audio amp - But I knew of that going in.
ANY car can have issues. And... For every one 'horror story' you hear about any car, there are dozens and dozens going without issue.
FYI - I had a Ford Explorer (1994 with 200,000 miles).
If you read the Explorer forums, you'd think you would be stuck on the corner with 'this or that' every couple of weeks.
In all my time with that truck - All I had to replace was the fuel pressure regulator and radius arm bushings.
That's it. Period.
The thing is to go in with an open set of eyes and find yourself the most pristine example you can afford and go out from there.
Then again - that applies to just about any used car experience - I'd guess.
I know. And it is not as if I'd buy a wagon with 100K+ miles. But I don't have the time nor the inclination to run that risk and pay someone crazy $$$ to fix it. I'm still not ruling it out though. I'll just need to test-drive it and see if it worth the hassle vs the V70R, that for what it offers new, is a great deal.
Personally, I think the V70R, purchased new, is WAY overpriced unless you're getting one at the end of the model year when there is gobs of trunk money.
Now a 2005 with ~20K miles for $35K makes some sense, IMO.
Personally, I think the V70R, purchased new, is WAY overpriced unless you're getting one at the end of the model year when there is gobs of trunk money.
Now a 2005 with ~20K miles for $35K makes some sense, IMO.
I'm thinking a brand-spanking new '07 for under $40K nest spring, or an '06 for mid-$30K.
But I agree, for the MSRP of mid to upper $40K's, no way.
If you order one, get it with the mesh guard built into the seat. You can't install it afterwards and it is really slick for what it is. That will be a better barrier for the dogs, imo. If you do get the metal gate, it swings up out of the way, but it's not the same.
wdc330i
10-10-2006, 06:41 PM
If you order one, get it with the mesh guard built into the seat. You can't install it afterwards and it is really slick for what it is. That will be a better barrier for the dogs, imo. If you do get the metal gate, it swings up out of the way, but it's not the same.
Yep. We've had one of those on both the e46 wagon and the e61--very handy. Also handy if you want to fill the cargo area up the the ceiling.
Oh, and FC, remember Volvo has a eurodelivery discount.
yeah, if you get it after market, you can't get it so it retracts. We had to settle for a fixed mesh that we have to take out if we need to haul stuff that fills the entire back. That happens more than you would think for us.
Oh, and FC, remember Volvo has a eurodelivery discount.
I know.;) :cool:
If my wife is not yet pregnant or not very pregnant end of winter, that will most likely be what we do. It is a pretty hassle-free way to get 7K off MSRP.
We wanted to go to Paris last spring but things didn't work out. So if the situation allows, we'll do srop off in Paris as we swing by Belgium, Holland, Denmark, etc.:D
Volvo throws in free airfare, so it works out quite well.
yeah, if you get it after market, you can't get it so it retracts. We had to settle for a fixed mesh that we have to take out if we need to haul stuff that fills the entire back. That happens more than you would think for us.
Interesting... Thanks for the heads up. I'll look into this more deeply when the time comes.
rumatt
10-10-2006, 06:54 PM
No stick, no... um... er... stick?
Yeah, FC makes out real great on that deal. :lol:
wdc330i
10-10-2006, 07:23 PM
I know.;) :cool:
If my wife is not yet pregnant or not very pregnant end of winter, that will most likely be what we do. It is a pretty hassle-free way to get 7K off MSRP.
We wanted to go to Paris last spring but things didn't work out. So if the situation allows, we'll do srop off in Paris as we swing by Belgium, Holland, Denmark, etc.:D
Volvo throws in free airfare, so it works out quite well.
Perfect. Enjoy the ease of travel while you can!
...if she learns to drive stick.
Just for the record... my wife drove a MT New Beetle when I met her - she knows how to drive a stickshift. Remember both our cars currently are MT.
;)
Just for the record... my wife drove a MT New Beetle when I met her - she knows how to drive a stickshift. Remember both our cars currently are MT.
;)
So.... then why must the wagon be lame?
So.... then why must the wagon be lame?
It's been discussed here before. It's a whole assortment of small "reasons."
-No one else we know drives a stick. A hassle when my mom or anyone else in my family needs the car as a favor to us or them. This has already happened many time swith our current MT-only setup.
-My wife, while she drives a MT, is not a purist, and so she sees it as enough of a distraction/extra work/lack of smoothness, that she rather have a silky-shifting slushie with the potentially future kids in the car.
-It's nice to have a slushie for when a limb is out of commission (bad leg, wrist, arm, etc).
Those are the primary reasons. Hey, at least she is fully on-board with the family hauler being the only slushie in the fleet.
It's been discussed here before. It's a whole assortment of small "reasons."
-No one else we know drives a stick. A hassle when my mom or anyone else in my family needs the car as a favor to us or them. This has already happened many time swith our current MT-only setup.
-My wife, while she drives a MT, is not a purist, and so she sees it as enough of a distraction/extra work/lack of smoothness, that she rather have a silky-shifting slushie with the potentially future kids in the car.
-It's nice to have a slushie for when a limb is out of commission (bad leg, wrist, arm, etc).
Those are the primary reasons. Hey, at least she is fully on-board with the family hauler being the only slushie in the fleet.
Oh yeah, now I remember. We tore apart your excuses when you posted them before.
No need to re-tear, but they're pretty weak.
For what it's worth, you know we're a family with two kids (the oldest now 6) who have had just sticks the whole time. Having family members unable to drive our cars has never been an issue (even though BOTH sets of parents are local). And how often do you plan on breaking limbs?
Oh yeah, now I remember. We tore apart your excuses when you posted them before.
No need to re-tear, but they're pretty weak.
For what it's worth, you know we're a family with two kids (the oldest now 6) who have had just sticks the whole time. Having family members unable to drive our cars has never been an issue (even though BOTH sets of parents are local). And how often do you plan on breaking limbs?
Sigh. I know. You don't need to sell me on it. I'll have my wife read this.
EDIT: She read the thread. Not impressed. Not even by the $1300 savings. "Non-negotiable." Like I've said before, it's not for lack of trying. From her POV, she is nice enough to let us have a sporty, fast wagon.
wdc330i
10-11-2006, 10:13 AM
That's fine. It just gives you ammunition for your manual Boxster S.
That's fine. It just gives you ammunition for your manual Boxster S.
Damn right. I have to pick my battles. I'll take a slushy 300hp wagon I won't drive everyday as long as I get the P-car.
For what it's worth, you know we're a family with two kids (the oldest now 6) who have had just sticks the whole time. Having family members unable to drive our cars has never been an issue (even though BOTH sets of parents are local). And how often do you plan on breaking limbs?
yeah, but mrs TD is even more of a purist than you that changes her own oil
mrs mbr is not--so why should she drive a car that the doesn't enjoy?
yeah, but mrs TD is even more of a purist than you that changes her own oil
mrs mbr is not--so why should she drive a car that the doesn't enjoy?
True. But I don't wish an auto tranny on anyone.
True. But I don't wish an auto tranny on anyone.
LOL
clyde
10-11-2006, 11:23 AM
Regardless of anything else used in justifications, rationalizations, logic, lack of logic, or whatever regarding transmission choice...
I :bustingup everytime I see that incapacitated limb argument. No offense to Mrs FC, as the fact that it exists leads me to believe that there's some kind of reason for it, but still... :lol: :bustingup
Regardless of anything else used in justifications, rationalizations, logic, lack of logic, or whatever regarding transmission choice...
I :bustingup everytime I see that incapacitated limb argument. No offense to Mrs FC, as the fact that exists leads me to believe that there's kind of reason for it, but still... :lol: :bustingup
I have recurring tendonitis in my right wrist that makes shifting less than fun sometimes. I've also left soccer games with injuries that made using the clutch a PITA. When I had shingles, I would have loved to have a slushie.
Laugh all you want. This all happened this year-to me. Not to say I didn't survive and dealt with it, but it would have been nice to have a slushie then.
Fernando, that's like buying a four wheel drive b/c you need it for the snow when you know it snows in your area and sticks to the streets about 3 days a year. incapacitated limb. hah.
Sharp11
10-11-2006, 12:49 PM
I have recurring tendonitis in my right wrist that makes shifting less than fun sometimes. I've also left soccer games with injuries that made using the clutch a PITA. When I had shingles, I would have loved to have a slushie.
Laugh all you want. This all happened this year-to me. Not to say I didn't survive and dealt with it, but it would have been nice to have a slushie then.
Aside from the long throws, the most recent 335 I drove had a six speed box and clutch that was so effortless to drive it may as well have been an automatic.
In fact, I'm reading great things about the new ZF auto, it'll certainly shift faster than any human and is probably the best match for the twin turbo coupe.
Ed
In fact, I'm reading great things about the new ZF auto, it'll certainly shift faster than any human and is probably the best match for the twin turbo coupe [as long as you don't really want to have any fun or control while driving it].
Ed
Fixt. :D
Sharp11
10-11-2006, 12:58 PM
Fixt. :D
But it wasn't fun, I thought that was implicit in my text :dunno:
What is funny to me, though, is how often I've met people who obsess over manual trannies only to find them to be terrible stick drivers - not the least bit smooth, no knowledge of heel and toe etc., yet they absolutely MUST have a stick, no exceptions. :lol:
Ed
Fernando, that's like buying a four wheel drive b/c you need it for the snow when you know it snows in your area and sticks to the streets about 3 days a year.
Of course. And that is why it is listed last as a "nice to have" positive on a slushie. The primary reasons are 1 & 2.
What is funny to me, though, is how often I've met people who obsess over manual trannies only to find them to be terrible stick drivers - not the least bit smooth, no knowledge of heel and toe etc., yet they absolutely MUST have a stick, no exceptions. :lol:
Ed
Hey, don't talk like TD about that here! He might see. :eeps:
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.