Latest idea: Car/Bike split

[Jason C]

(I'll run this past you guys, tell me what you think)

So upon further discussion with friends and family members, the need to not outflash the boss was brought up and mulled over a few times. Now, I know some people around here have quite a bit of leeway when choosing cars. I'm not one of those people. Some of us :stickpoked: TD for making that an important criteria when choosing cars but now that I've examined my situation, I can see how one can place importance on that.

I'm also finding it hard to justify blowing that much cash on one car, even if it is a nice car. That, and balancing the daily driver/fun toy thing never ceases to frustrate me.

So, why compromise all the attributes I want into one purchase?

For the car part of the equation, I've actually been looking at (gasp!) this one (http://macleans.auto123.com/en/info/news/roadtest,view,Hyundai.spy?artid=40262&pg=1). The last version was the #1 vehicle (as ranked by CR) in reliability, and I'd expect this one to continue that record. What took the Japanese more than 20 years to accomplish, the Koreans have done in less than 10. At autoshows where I've compared vehicles, I am always impressed at the great strides that have been made to bridge the gap, and I think this one would make a perfect commuter/road trip-er/general use beater. It looks to be quiet, comfortable, powerful (with a V6 and 5-speed auto), refined, spacious, reliable, etc etc. And I actually like the styling (in a kind of derivative eurojap sort of way), it's so much better than the imitation Benz/Jag of the last Sonata. And it has that fat warranty. AND it comes with that badge - so that I never have to worry about outdoing the boss. "Hey man, I drive a friggin Korean car! I'm humble!" :)

http://macleans.auto123.com/ArtImages/40262/08.jpg
http://macleans.auto123.com/ArtImages/40262/13.jpg



"That's nice and all," you're surely saying by now, "but that's not really the first vehicle that comes to mind when I think *carmudgeon*.



Well, I've also been considering this:

http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2005models/2005-Kawasaki-ZZR600-small.jpg
http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2005models/2005-Kawasaki-ZZR600b-small.jpg

Of course, I'll get the Ninja 250 first and learn on that for at least a year. Forget what Kawasaki marketing says about the 2005 ZZR600. This is a 2000 ZX-6R with a new paintjob and a nice new low insurance rates. I like it because it was one of the last SS that used carburetors (no jumpy FI midcorner) and it had the reputation for being the most comfortable 600cc SS at the time. It would make a superb second bike, methinks. I also like that it's not an obscenely neon-fluorescent hey-look-at-me two wheeler.



So, am I nuts or am I on to something here? I wanted something in the Evo/S2000 price rance and performance focus, but now I'm thinking that something like this is far better than the compromise that one (and only one) car would bring.

[FC]

That car looks like the child of an A4 (previous gen) with an Accord (also previous gen), which is to say, it doesn't look bad. Very impressed.

[dredmo]

Bikes are so much fun, if you are looking for something to enjoy or cummute in, nothing beats a bike.

[TD]

The styling on that Hyundai is quite impressive. It's sad when a Hyundai looks MUCH better than anything currently offered by BMW of Audi.

But from an enthusiast perspective, I would think a used E36 M3 might be a better choice for the same $$.

[Jason C]

But from an enthusiast perspective, I would think a used E36 M3 might be a better choice for the same $$.

Here's the thing, though - regarding the E36 M3 (Or many used carmudgeon-type vehicle).

While E30M3s/E36M3s/etc are undeniably attractive, several factors come up:

-As nice as they are, I feel that clean examples are just about too nice to subject to a daily commute, especially an E30M3. And I know that if I'm picking, I won't settle for less than a very clean example.
-The "automotive hypochondriac" factor. Although I am (will be?) much better equipped to deal with it then the average carmudgeon, I'd like to come home with a nice fat, peace-of-mind coverage. I'm already going to be dealing with shit like that at work every day. I don't really want to come home to those kind of problems too.
-The badge. Yep. That could be a problem.

I know the Hyundai is no more than an Accord/Camry type, which means an appliance (albeit a very well made appliance). That's what the bike is for - the other half of the "enthusiast perspective." ;)

[Autarch]

That is a far more intelligent way to blow your wad. You could:

A) Buy a low end sport luxury (such as a low end 3 series or a G35)

b) Buy what you are buying: A practical car and the pinnacle of sport driving

C) Buy a low end sports car and a beater




I would personally do what you are doing. I own a 2002 Sonata V6 and while it isn't sporty it's definately been practical and cost effective. It's also been rock solid reliable and had a low cost of ownership. The next generation Sonata has what is actually a very impressive engine (peak torque at only 3500 RPM and keeps 90% of that until it's 6000rpm power peak) and redesigned suspension that gives it a fairly taught feel - more in line with an Accord instead of a Mazda6. Another advantage to the Sonata is it's EPA classification of Full Size rather than Midsize - that means you will have a ton of interior room while not having to deal with huge exterior room.

Might I suggest a Mazda6 with a manual or are you specifically going for huge warranty with automatic? I completely understand both points of view there: I have both. If you are going for an auto though that is a great choice. It has close to the peak power output of the class leaders while having excellent torque ratings all across the band. An Altima is also a good choice but you don't get the warranty and an Altima will be considerably more expensive.

I am still trying to decide between a project car and a 600cc sport bike but either way it won't happen for a couple of years.

[ride365]

-The badge. Yep. That could be a problem.


debadge.

excellent choice for a bike. i lean toward honda, but any reliable, carburated, tastefully painted SS is a good bet.

personally i like to have that driver/rider excitement even on my commute (i don't have a typical commute) so i might be happier with an evo or s2000 -- which are precisely the 2 cars at the top of my list.

[Roadstergal]

I'd start with a used GS500E or EX500. I prefer the former because it's nekkid and takes a drop better (not to mention that I think it's better-looking). You can get them for cheap, they do fine on the freeway as well as around town, they're very capable bikes, and if you're wise in your purchase, you might not even lose any money when/if you go to sell it.

I lean towards Suzuki because they've always been good to me. ;) I drove a Fizzer 1000 today, and although it's fast and sounds lovely, I still prefer my SV - the flickability and inexplicable joy of riding are just hard to beat.

[ride365]

yeah good point. i think ANY bike is fun, so spend the money on EVO/S2000 and then get whatever bike you can afford.

[Jason C]

-The badge. Yep. That could be a problem.


debadge.

-I'm not about to pry off the hood/trunk roundel off an E36/E30 M3.
-Even if I did, it would be almost insulting (to others) to suggest that what I drove couldn't be recognized for what it was.

I kinda picked the car part of the equation knowing that I'd already have a loud, fast, infinitely involving vehicle in my stable - so I deliberately picked a quiet, comfortable, low-maintenance, low-key counterpart. Can you see the logic involved? ;)

I'm still mulling over my options now. A lot can change.

[Jason C]

I'd start with a used GS500E or EX500. I prefer the former because it's nekkid and takes a drop better (not to mention that I think it's better-looking). You can get them for cheap, they do fine on the freeway as well as around town, they're very capable bikes, and if you're wise in your purchase, you might not even lose any money when/if you go to sell it.

I lean towards Suzuki because they've always been good to me. I drove a Fizzer 1000 today, and although it's fast and sounds lovely, I still prefer my SV - the flickability and inexplicable joy of riding are just hard to beat.

I thought hard about the GS500/EX500, but the 250 has a lower seat height, lighter weight, lower cost, and so on. Plus (even though I like the looks better), the EX500 has a rep for having a much buzzier and less refined twin compared to the 250. And I'm sorta meh on the air-cooled GS500. But those are small nitpicks.

Used is definitely the way to go for a starter bike though. :thumbup:

[Roadstergal]

I've owned three air-cooled bikes - all it is is one thing you don't have to service. ;) I think you should at least try the 500E; I'm thinking you'll outgrow the 250 quickly. And price-wise - you can get good-condition 500Es for $2k or under.

There's a guy in Chicago selling a 500F that's just cherry. If I can get the bugger at Mototek to take the dang rotting RS back, I might just pick that up instead. 500ccs is a good size for a 'round-town, freeway-able bike, IMO; fast enough, not too fast.

I'd love to have a V-twin that's 350-500ccs. But it seems like all of the sportbikes are 600 or bigger these days.

[Jason C]

I think you should at least try the 500E; I'm thinking you'll outgrow the 250 quickly.

Outgrow? Nah...

There was a forum-er and track junkie on the now defunct bb boards that made the switch from an EX250 to an FZR600RR, and he had an extensive account on what the transition was like. He specifically mentioned more than once that a huge amount of his learning was after the first season of riding - where he was already comfortable and had some of that slight overconfidence yeah-I-got-the-hang-of-it going on, but decided to ride another season on the 250 for some reason.

I don't think I'll be outgrowing anything anytime soon. And if I do... well, the EX250 (along with the other starter triumvirate GS500/EX500) have little difficulty selling on the used market. I'm not too concerned. :dunno:

If I see a nice GS500 near me, I'll be sure to give it due consideration.

[ride365]

-I'm not about to pry off the hood/trunk roundel off an E36/E30 M3.

sorry i thought you were talking about the hyundai.


I'm thinking you'll outgrow the 250 quickly
i can't believe you of all people made that statement.

[Jason C]

I'm thinking you'll outgrow the 250 quickly
i can't believe you of all people made that statement.

Now that you mention it... :lol:

[blee]

I want a bike.

[Roadstergal]

I'm thinking you'll outgrow the 250 quickly
i can't believe you of all people made that statement.

Did I say it was because of the power that he would? ;)

I haven't spent any time riding one, but from what I've read, the handling, brakes, and general build quality take a step up up from the 250 to either 500.

[Jason C]

so spend the money on EVO/S2000 and then get whatever bike you can afford.

I may end up doing something like this, depending on how finances shake out. Probably more STi/EVO, though TD wouldn't touch the riceboy styling I think it might actually be better (in my case) than the often-mistaken-for-expensive-eurosteel that is the S2000.

But who am I kidding. There's a lot more waffling to be had.

And I find myself strangely attracted to this color combination:

http://www.subdriven.com/gallery/albums//Features/Reviews/2005%20WRX%20STI/028.jpg

[ride365]

I haven't spent any time riding one, but from what I've read, the handling, brakes, and general build quality take a step up up from the 250 to either 500.
i see your point, but i'm still not 100% behind the statement considering my primary ride is 15 years old and mostly stock/original parts.

And I find myself strangely attracted to this color combination:
delete the wing and debadge it and you have my blessing.

[Roadstergal]

but i'm still not 100% behind the statement considering my primary ride is 15 years old and mostly stock/original parts.

It doesn't look like your primary ride is a Ninja 250, tho. :?

My SV is bone stock (aside from cut seat and Busa dogbones to bring it down to my height) and has done nothing but amaze me with its competence. I'm talking about initial build quality, not age or mods.

But the higher displacement bikes tend to get better stuff than the lower displacement ones, unfortunately. Even the paint job on the GSXR1000s is noticeably better than the one on the GSXR600. I've said many times that if they made a 350-500cc Vtwin built to the standards of my SV, I'd be all over it like white on rice, but they don't.

[Jason C]

I've said many times that if they made a 350-500cc Vtwin built to the standards of my SV, I'd be all over it like white on rice, but they don't.

That's what you get for living in the land of the free: Bike makes engage in CC one-upsmanship, while leaving stuff like the SV400 in Japan and Europe.

But even if they brought it here, it wouldn't be a winning business case. They know the average 'merican is going to look at an SV400 and think "Well I can pay just a thousand more (or even less that that) and get the 650." That price ballpark is about right, btw - several bike makes have off-the-record admitted that the business case for bringing those lovely smaller-displacement bikes here just isn't strong enough.

[Roadstergal]

But there's only a $2K difference between the SV650 and SV1000 - and the former sells far more. That's always been an odd little exception for the US market, to my way of thinking - and an odd exception to the rule I've mentioned above, because magazine tests say the 650 handles better.

But when I was talking to the local Aprilia dealer, he said they've stopped selling low-displacement bikes here because the dollar is so weak - it just doesn't make financial sense for that reason. They can better hide the difference in high-displacement, high-dollar bikes.

[Jason C]

A real shame, that it is - I'd love to use this as a starter bike:

http://www.tomizawa.com/images/sv400.jpg
2004 SV400S (in Japan, of course)


Importing one on the gray market and legalizing it for street use would be way more moolah than I could stomach, IMO.

It is sad. Starters here have either the choice of EX250/EX500/GS500... or they're tempted by the easy avaliability (and style factor) of a 600cc supersport. The latter case happens way too often, and I think it wouldn't occur as often if something like the above sold here.

[ride365]

It doesn't look like your primary ride is a Ninja 250, tho. :?
i might never be able to make a statement that holds water in this conversation since i've never owned or ridden a ninja 250. if that's all you're talking about, then i'll defer to your experience.

in college i owned a 250 honda rebel. i'm familiar with the build quality in that market segment. still that bike served it's purpose, was fun to ride and even puttered me on a few 700+ mile trips. if i didn't have to sell it after graduation and if garage space wasn't an issue, i might still own it today. it wouldn't be my only bike, but my point is that IMO motorcycles are inherently fun enough that "outgrowing" them is usually not an issue i relate to.

[Jason C]

delete the wing and debadge it and you have my blessing.

The odd thing was, I was browsing some photo threads the other day featuring de-winged STi/EVO pics, and... :dunno: something seemed a bit off. Almost as if the porportions were thrown out of whack, expecially the EVOs.

Still, I have seen at least one ad on craigslist from an STi owner looking to swap his entire trunkpiece with a regular WRX. That would be quite the interesting mod.

[ride365]

The odd thing was, I was browsing some photo threads the other day featuring de-winged STi/EVO pics, and... :dunno: something seemed a bit off. Almost as if the porportions were thrown out of whack, expecially the EVOs.
oh i wasn't saying i have a problem with the boy-racer style. i definitely think the EVO needs the full-on wing... not even the "small" wing does that car justice. i just happen to prefer the STi without it.

Still, I have seen at least one ad on craigslist from an STi owner looking to swap his entire trunkpiece with a regular WRX. That would be quite the interesting mod.
yeah it's definitely done and probably the route i would take if i got an STi. i prefer the EVO though for purely personal reasons.

[Roadstergal]

it wouldn't be my only bike, but my point is that IMO motorcycles are inherently fun enough that "outgrowing" them is usually not an issue i relate to.

I thought so, too... but after scraping the pegs and locking the tires a number of times on my 2nd Savage, I thought that I had just outgrown the dang thing and sold it. Being hyper might have something to do with it, though. I can't just sit back and enjoy the ride on a bike.

But again, that's not displacement-related; I picked up the RS in the hopes I would have all of the handling and braking in a slower package.

[Jason C]

The odd thing was, I was browsing some photo threads the other day featuring de-winged STi/EVO pics, and... :dunno: something seemed a bit off. Almost as if the porportions were thrown out of whack, expecially the EVOs.
oh i wasn't saying i have a problem with the boy-racer style. i definitely think the EVO needs the full-on wing... not even the "small" wing does that car justice. i just happen to prefer the STi without it.

Still, I have seen at least one ad on craigslist from an STi owner looking to swap his entire trunkpiece with a regular WRX. That would be quite the interesting mod.
yeah it's definitely done and probably the route i would take if i got an STi. i prefer the EVO though for purely personal reasons.

I tend to agree RE: the Evo. I sometimes go back and forth regarding the STi, but a (painted) carbon fiber trunkpiece would also be a good solution. You could keep the OEM trunk and go back to that whenever you wanted to.