Sportscar trial period

[FC]

After some talk we've decided to buy an impractical sportscar - though I'm still not yet 100% convinced.

The thought cycle (previously discussed) is: I want a sports car, but I need a 4-seater as a DD. -> Get the sportscar and drive the Volvo as a DD. -> Volvo=slushie+heavy=me not happy.-> Great, get a cheaper sportscar to complement your 330i. ->Yeah, well, I dunno how often I'll get to drive the sportscar so most of the time I'll still be driving my old car.-> Fine, compromise and get the best sporty car that can still work as a DD.

That makes sense. And that is how I got to wanting an M3 sedan, or maybe (but unlikely) a used 911.

However, if we go new M3, we will want to do ED. And since kids are so young, the absolute earliest would be next spring, and likely next fall. Fall is a bad time for ED when you live in snow country since you get your car just in time for snow season, so it may well push the ED trip to two years from now.

Options:

1) Just shut up and wait. After all you have a nice car that you still like. - A reasonable approach, and the default scenario.
2) Look for a used M3 within the next 12 months. Not a bad idea, but something tells me I'll wind up getting a used car for not a big enough savings over a new, built to order M3 and I would miss ED.
3) Wait for your new M3+ED trip but in the meantime, give the sportscar thing a shot. After all, there's two years in between.

Needless to say, I'm leaning towards 3) and wife approves.

The benefits are that I can try out the sportscar thing and see if it fits my lifestyle and if I get to drive it enough. If I love the setup, I don't go with the M3. If it doesn't seem to work out, I swap my old 330i and sportscar for a new or used M3 (in a dream scenario just swap the 330i for an M3 and keep the sportscar - more realistic the more time passes and the cheaper used M3's get). Even if do end up with just the M3, I can say I tried out the sportscar thing and willingly gave it up and will be sure about the decision with no regrets. I'll be looking at used cars so I wont take a bloodbath at resale if I do sell it.

So, for now, I am setting a budget of about $30K to get any sportscar I want.

The list of contenders are:

'05-'06 Elise/Exige
Early 987S/Cayman S

Of these, early Elises are more realistic since they already are in the 30K range or even less. Porsches may not get there until the winter.


That's the plan. Thoughts?

[Sharp11]

I'll refrain from the easy cheap shots and wonder, aloud, why the list of contenders is so short :dunno:

Where's the Miata, S2000, Z4, Z3, Corvette etc.... lots and lots of choices in the 30k range.

Ed

[FC]

What is really stopping us from getting another impractical car like the GT2 is that we can't take the Godzilla baby with us in it.

That means on the weekend, the GT2 sits parked.

That means if we get an F car, or any two seaters, they will just stay parked on the weekend.

If you want one, just know that it will mostly be driven by you, alone.

That's what's really stopping us anyway from acting on all the good deals right now on F cars, Lambo, GT's, etc.

Well, that's the reason why the sports car plan (the original one from years ago) was scrapped. Also, not that I could afford one, but it's a lot easier to swallow having a used 30K car go unused (if that turns out to be the case)than a $100K car.

[FC]

I'll refrain from the easy cheap shots and wonder, aloud, why the list of contenders is so short :dunno:

Where's the Miata, S2000, Z4, Z3, Corvette etc.... lots and lots of choices in the 30k range.

Ed

It's purely an emotional purchase and I want it to be really special when I do drive it. The Z's and miata while nice enough, don't get me pumped and I've never considered them my dream cars. The Corvette has plenty of power, but again, not something I've breen drooling over for years.

The Elise promises to be something special. I've yet to drive one, unfortunately, but I certainly will - as soon as I can find one nearby. The 987S, well, that has always been the car I wanted. It doesn' have to make sense, it just has to make me happy.

[clyde]

it just has to make me happy.

You may as well just give up now, then. Since you're not absolutely dead set on a specific car, there is always going to be a nagging doubt in the back of your head. Whatever you get will only satisfy a momentary lustful desire that will quickly be replaced by a compulsion to fuck other women. Be true to that and accept that the relationship with the car will be temporary instead of permanent and it will be a lot easier.

[FC]

You may as well just give up now, then. Since you're not absolutely dead set on a specific car, there is always going to be a nagging doubt in the back of your head. Whatever you get will only satisfy a momentary lustful desire that will quickly be replaced by a compulsion to fuck other women. Be true to that and accept that the relationship with the car will be temporary instead of permanent and it will be a lot easier.

Well, that's the idea. The thought is that I'm not getting the replacement to my car for 1.5-2 yeasr anyhow, so might as well kill time with a weeknd toy car. If I make a mistake, no big deal. It's just a rental.

[FC]

I see, then this should make you very happy.:D

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=258913335&dealer_id=57625908&car_year=1996&rdm=1243266098452&model=F355&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=2&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&color2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=FER&keywords_display=&color=RED&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=COUPE&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=90024&advanced=y&end_year=2010&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=2550&standard=false&rdpage=thumb


:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

[Mathew]

If you want one, just know that it will mostly be driven by you, alone.



Isn't that the point of a sports car when you're married with kids?

[FC]

I've got my eye on this. (http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/chrome-orange-2005-lotus-elise-mint-condition-27500-a-73237/)

[clyde]

Well, that's the idea. The thought is that I'm not getting the replacement to my car for 1.5-2 yeasr anyhow, so might as well kill time with a weeknd toy car. If I make a mistake, no big deal. It's just a rental.

Do something already, then. ;)

[FC]

Do something already, then. ;)

:mad2:

I just got clearance yesterday. I started to look today.

[dan]

I've got my eye on this. (http://www.lotustalk.com/forums/f94/chrome-orange-2005-lotus-elise-mint-condition-27500-a-73237/)

How about yellow?

[FC]

How about yellow?

Color preferences are Orange>Yellow>White. So yellow is an option.

[equ]

That makes sense. And that is how I got to wanting an M3 sedan, or maybe (but unlikely) a used 911.

However, if we go new M3, we will want to do ED. And since kids are so young, the absolute earliest would be next spring, and likely next fall. Fall is a bad time for ED when you live in snow country since you get your car just in time for snow season, so it may well push the ED trip to two years from now.

Options:

1) Just shut up and wait. After all you have a nice car that you still like. - A reasonable approach, and the default scenario.
2) Look for a used M3 within the next 12 months. Not a bad idea, but something tells me I'll wind up getting a used car for not a big enough savings over a new, built to order M3 and I would miss ED.
3) Wait for your new M3+ED trip but in the meantime, give the sportscar thing a shot. After all, there's two years in between.

Needless to say, I'm leaning towards 3) and wife approves.


So, for now, I am setting a budget of about $30K to get any sportscar I want.

The list of contenders are:

'05-'06 Elise/Exige
Early 987S/Cayman S

Of these, early Elises are more realistic since they already are in the 30K range or even less. Porsches may not get there until the winter.

That's the plan. Thoughts?

As much as I like the m3, it just doesn't take the place of the loti or 987's. In fact, in 90% of my driving (busy roads surrounded by people), the zhp would be as much fun.

I boringly vote for porsche. I think an untracked elise would get very tiring very fast (in months not years), but it still beats buying a new m3.

[clyde]

:mad2:

I just got clearance yesterday. I started to look today.

Dude, you mean you didn't have a contingency plan ready to spring into action? What kind of Russian are you? :eeps:

[lemming]

i like the lotus idea.

it's relatively frugal, too --looks like decent resale since it's already depreciated.

at the end of the day, the toyota engine, which sort of takes away from its "specialness" is that part that gives one the most comfort in buying it pre-owned. it is a known entity, reliable pretty well sorted out.

[Sharp11]

It's purely an emotional purchase and I want it to be really special when I do drive it. The Z's and miata while nice enough, don't get me pumped and I've never considered them my dream cars. The Corvette has plenty of power, but again, not something I've breen drooling over for years.

The Elise promises to be something special. I've yet to drive one, unfortunately, but I certainly will - as soon as I can find one nearby. The 987S, well, that has always been the car I wanted. It doesn' have to make sense, it just has to make me happy.

I still think you need to drive more cars - for example, an S2k is a thrilling drive, and more liveable (not by too much, but probably just enough) than a Lotus (plus it has a proper convertible top :))

Since this is, by your definition, a "trial" purchase, you don't need your dream car, you need to know if the idea has legs.

Ed

[FC]

i like the lotus idea.

it's relatively frugal, too --looks like decent resale since it's already depreciated.

at the end of the day, the toyota engine, which sort of takes away from its "specialness" is that part that gives one the most comfort in buying it pre-owned. it is a known entity, reliable pretty well sorted out.

Yup. If I pick one up for say 28K, it may cost me only about 3K a year in depreciation.

[John V]

DRIVE

SOME

CARS

ALREADY

HOLY

SHIT

[FC]

DRIVE

SOME

CARS

ALREADY

HOLY

SHIT

I have. I've driven the Porsches. I've driven the Z4. I've driven the MX-5. I tried driving a plain C6 and an S2K. I did drive lemming's C6 Z06. I've been trying to drive an Elise for a while. The Lotus dealership finally has a couple of vanilla Elises in stock. I need to set up an appointment to go drive one this weekend. I'll do that today.

[lemming]

I have. I've driven the Porsches. I've driven the Z4. I've driven the MX-5. I tried driving a plain C6 and an S2K. I did drive lemming's C6 Z06. I've been trying to drive an Elise for a while. The Lotus dealership finally has a couple of vanilla Elises in stock. I need to set up an appointment to go drive one this weekend. I'll do that today.

just an FYI, i've seen M Z4s with 30k or slightly less.

:D

those are wicked.

[lupinsea]

What is really stopping us from getting another impractical car like the GT2 is that we can't take the Godzilla baby with us in it.

That means on the weekend, the GT2 sits parked.

That means if we get an F car, or any two seaters, they will just stay parked on the weekend.

This is what I'm discovering with our ZHP / Volvo line up. I drive the ZHP during the week basically as a commuter car through traffic. Then on the weekend it gets parked as we do family stuff with the Volvo which has room for Zoe (our dog) in the back. Very rarely do we have more than one person (me) in the ZHP.

It's actually quite a nice thought as the next car I get doesn't really need to have more than 2 seats. It'd be handy "in a pinch" but not really needed. Kind of re-affirms the decision to get a sports car.





And FC . . . 'bout time. :D

Get your self a cheap(er) sports car and enjoy it for a few years while your making up your mind on other things.

An Elise would be cool, but I think they'd get really tiring after a while. An S2k, Boxster, Cayman (if they're that cheap used yet), etc. would probably be more livable. Also check out the new 370Zs. Might be too new.

[lemming]

not sure the Elise will be your cup of tea, but would be curious to see what you think after you drive it.

having driven a raspy four cylinder recently (with a 7500rpm redline) --i'm not sure i could deal with it on an everyday basis.

it makes the BMW/MINI 1.6L turbo seem even more brilliant than ever.

[FC]

not sure the Elise will be your cup of tea, but would be curious to see what you think after you drive it.

having driven a raspy four cylinder recently (with a 7500rpm redline) --i'm not sure i could deal with it on an everyday basis.

it makes the BMW/MINI 1.6L turbo seem even more brilliant than ever.

Well, I'm quite sure that if I drove the sportscar with any regularity, I would pretty quickly opt for a 987 over the Elise. But as a seldom used toy car, I don't think I'll mind the Elise. But I have to drive it. I'll find out this weekend. The dealer has an LSS and a non-LSS in stock. I deally I'll get to try both and see how bad the sports suspension is around Boston roads.

[ff]

But as a seldom used toy car

Once you own one, and start driving it, are you sure that you can keep yourself from driving it as often as possible? It would kill me to own something like that, and seldom get the chance to hop behind the wheel.

[FC]

Once you own one, and start driving it, are you sure that you can keep yourself from driving it as often as possible? It would kill me to own something like that, and seldom get the chance to hop behind the wheel.

You can bet I'll be making up excuses for driving it. And nothing would make me happier than to succeed at it.

My point is that it's simply impossibl eto use it as a commuter, family trips, etc. And by vritue of being impractical, I'll mostly drive it alone while having fun. And in that context, I probably won't care about the alleged gutlessness, hars ride, noise, etc.

If I drove the sportscar in a daily commute like I used to have, I'm pretty positive I'd want a Cayman.

[John V]

I think the Elise is a love it / hate it kind of car. I love it. I would commute in it. I would take it when we go out to dinner. I'd take it to the grocery store. I'd drive it out to Nebraska if I had to. But I suspect most people aren't like me, and the initial lust would wear off pretty quickly because it is loud, stiff, harsh, boomy and totally incapable of dealing with pot holes and frost heaves.

The only reservation I have about you buying an early 987S is that you're going to love it so much you'll be kicking yourself in 6 months for not waiting and getting the two-year-newer car with the extra power. Or the four-year-newer car with the LSD. Or the next special version Porsche comes out with. And these cars depreciate fast, so trading up gets expensive very quickly. When I had my 986 I was always lusting after the 987. Last thought on this - the early 987 is going to depreciate a lot more dramatically than the later ones.

I have a lot of sympathy for you when it comes to perseverating about car buying. I'm the same way, I just do it internally. My strategy was always to spend as much time as possible searching out cars on the forums, cars.com, carmax, autotrader, and eBay. I'd whittle it down to ones I really wanted to go see in person and drive. Once I did that I pretty quickly converged on a solution and I've owned some really good examples. What's interesting is I had very little interest in a Boxster until I drove one. It didn't take long to fall in love.

The only exception was the Z06, which (although I'd wanted one since they came out) I didn't deliberate over. I just pulled the trigger when it became available. I had been internally debating for five years: I want this car -> I can't deal with the general crumminess of it -> I WANT THIS CAR. :) Eventually I just had to try it.

[clyde]

The only reservation I have about you buying an early 987S is that you're going to love it so much you'll be kicking yourself in 6 months for not waiting and getting the two-year-newer car with the extra power. Or the four-year-newer car with the LSD. Or the next special version Porsche comes out with.

Are you talking about a car or a computer?

[John V]

Are you talking about a car or a computer?

I keep computers for six or seven years so that upgrade addiction does not apply to me. :lol:

[FC]

The only reservation I have about you buying an early 987S is that you're going to love it so much you'll be kicking yourself in 6 months for not waiting and getting the two-year-newer car with the extra power. Or the four-year-newer car with the LSD. Or the next special version Porsche comes out with. And these cars depreciate fast, so trading up gets expensive very quickly. When I had my 986 I was always lusting after the 987. Last thought on this - the early 987 is going to depreciate a lot more dramatically than the later ones.


I've been thinking exactly that. My thought on that is that if the sportscar thing doesn't work, so be it. Trade both cars for an M3 in a couple of years and call it done for a while.

If it does, I can trade up to a newer sportscar after 3-4 years (i.e. Elise to used DFI 987S, etc).

There is large variability as to what our life will be like in 5+ years. If things turn out really well, I may not care that much about paying a little extra, or trading more often, or having an extra car, etc. The more likely scenario is that I'll have to maintain a status quo level of car spending. Meaning, on average, replacing one of the two cars every 2-3 years with something costing ~$40K(?). I just came up woth that - I dunno that it makes all that much sense.

All that said, I have a feeling I will really like the Elise. There is also the vain/poser element that you REALLY don't see Elises around here. I've seen 2 - ever. And it's cool-looking. So that adds to the "special" factor beyond the unique dynamics and fun of driving it.

[John V]

They are definitely special cars. My brother lives out in Colorado where the roads are in very good shape and for that environment I like it a lot.

If I lived much further north than I do now, I am not sure I would want one because they are really out of their element when the roads get broken and potholed. The Boxster / Cayman deal what that environment a lot better.

[ZBB]

I haven't chimed in yet... but I think FC's idea to try our a 3rd "impractical" car for a period of time is great. It would give him the time to see if all 3 cars would be driven on a regular basis or not.

A couple years ago, we ended up with 3 cars for about six months:
- My E39, which was my daily driver.
- My wife's new X3, which was her daily driver
- My wife's old MINI, which was going to be sold, but she procrastinated for a few months.

Since the MINI was still around, I figured that I'd drive it to work a couple days a week, and we'd take it out on weekends. I ended up driving it to work at most once a month, and we always just used the X3 on weekends. I learned that we don't need a 3rd car and that even if we had one, it wouldn't really get used. We're better off with 2 cars that are daily drivers, but also offer some fun.

Now that the X3 is coming off lease in a few months, we're now shopping for a replacement. The MINI Clubman is at the top of my wife's list...

[Sharp11]

They are definitely special cars. My brother lives out in Colorado where the roads are in very good shape and for that environment I like it a lot.

If I lived much further north than I do now, I am not sure I would want one because they are really out of their element when the roads get broken and potholed. The Boxster / Cayman deal what that environment a lot better.

The roads here are the worst I've ever seen - couple a really rough winter with budget cuts and I guess that's what you get.

At any rate, driving my car with its 18's and low profile (35 in the rear) tires is an exercise in looking up and down - right in front of you - to try and avoid the "hit".

Ed

[lemming]

The roads here are the worst I've ever seen - couple a really rough winter with budget cuts and I guess that's what you get.

At any rate, driving my car with its 18's and low profile (35 in the rear) tires is an exercise in looking up and down - right in front of you - to try and avoid the "hit".

Ed

roads here are no different, my friend.

[lupinsea]

I think FC should just go ahead and get some kind of sports car he can drive and have fun with. Otherwise the 2-3 years are going to come and go before he's at the M3 decision point and he'll not have had the sports car experience.

:D

I have my own semi-FCesque plan in place to get something fun to replace the ZHP in about 3 years. Not because I'm all that indicisive (though I do have a prioritiezed car list*) but because of financial reasons in trying to stretch out the use of the ZHP another few years so we have a few years of no car payments in which to save up cash.

Go get your sports car "soon", FC and maximize the time you have to enjoy it before switching to something else.

That is, if this is something you'd really want to do.















* I could be perfectly happy plunking down the clams for a NC Miata today and getting rid of the ZHP. But I'm just curious about the R56 MCS, 370Z, S2000, and maybe a a base model C6 Corvette w/ the Z51 suspension. So I'd probably test drive the other cars and still end up getting the NC.

[lupinsea]

Oh, and the Elises sure look cool, feel cool sitting in with a great sense of the whole car about you. But the ingress/egress is too awkward for my tastes. They aren't that common around here but I still see a few every month.

[lemming]

I think FC should just go ahead and get some kind of sports car he can drive and have fun with. Otherwise the 2-3 years are going to come and go before he's at the M3 decision point and he'll not have had the sports car experience.

:D

I have my own semi-FCesque plan in place to get something fun to replace the ZHP in about 3 years. Not because I'm all that indicisive (though I do have a prioritiezed car list*) but because of financial reasons in trying to stretch out the use of the ZHP another few years so we have a few years of no car payments in which to save up cash.

Go get your sports car "soon", FC and maximize the time you have to enjoy it before switching to something else.

That is, if this is something you'd really want to do.















* I could be perfectly happy plunking down the clams for a NC Miata today and getting rid of the ZHP. But I'm just curious about the R56 MCS, 370Z, S2000, and maybe a a base model C6 Corvette w/ the Z51 suspension. So I'd probably test drive the other cars and still end up getting the NC.

myself i'd drive the LS3 C6 with the Z51 and the new 370Z, also.

could be where i end up sooner than later, right there with you.

[lupinsea]

I'm really intrigued by the new 370z. I understand compared to a Boxster it's not as good. . . clumsier. But that's also a very high bar that is set and other reviews noted it's a very well composed, very good car, very fast, etc. etc.. Even irrespective of the price. Factor price in the bargain and for $30k new it's tough to beat. Knock that down to hopefully low $20's in three years for a used copy? Could be in the mix.

I'd love to get an "American" sports car like the Corvette. There's something about a big V8 engine. And I liked driving my old Corvette, very unique driving perspective, hopefully the new ones would be as entertaining. But I got a bit burned out on the repairs and up keep. Granted, that was a mid-70's era GM car I bought that was 26 years old at the time with 130,000 miles on it. Still. I'm irrationally leary of Corvettes still.

Given that even a base model C6 has more power and potential I'm likely to ever tap or have skill to drive masterfully I don't even really consider a Z06 example. The extra cost would be wasted on me.

With both of these cars I'd be concerned about the bigness of them. The C6's have shrunk in size which is a good move to me but they're still big cars. And the 370z while lighter than its predecessor is still on the heavy side for me (with the C6). I like light and nimble. Hopefully with enough power to have fun. And the C6 seems to have enough power even in base trim. Heck, so does the 370z.

My other concern would be feeling that I was having to restrain myself too much in the cars. I get this with the ZHP at times where it's like there's too much power in some of the turns and I need to back off the throttle. That wasn't the case with the Miata I had. With my NB Miata I needed to work the car more and at lower, closer-to-legal speeds it was a lot of fun and engaging. I felt I didn't need to back off the throttle or restrain the car much at all. I suspect that hasn't changed with the NC. The C6 and 370z, on the other hand, might be more boring when driven on the open road if I'd be trying to stay close to the speed limits.

Who knows, maybe a test drive will change my mind. But that's a ways off.

[clyde]

And I liked driving my old Corvette, very unique driving perspective, hopefully the new ones would be as entertaining. But I got a bit burned out on the repairs and up keep. Granted, that was a mid-70's era GM car I bought that was 26 years old at the time with 130,000 miles on it. Still. I'm irrationally leary of Corvettes still.

The 1974-1982 Corvettes were the worst of the lot in many ways. Experiences with one of them should not color your thoughts on earlier or later ones. And I know you know that, but still felt compelled to say it. ;)

base model C6
Is on my list of possible Armada replacements. I need to have an actual back and forth with the owner/seller, but there's a 2005 that may have my name on it. I'll believe it when I see it, though.

[lupinsea]

The 1974-1982 Corvettes were the worst of the lot in many ways. Experiences with one of them should not color your thoughts on earlier or later ones. And I know you know that, but still felt compelled to say it. ;)
Yeah, I do know that. . . . still.

BTW, I haven't bothered to research it but how is the reliability / maintenance cost / upkeep / etc. of the C6's? I would hope they are at least average. About the same as a BMW 3 series? Better (lower) repair costs? Worse reliability? And any idea on what tends to fail? The SB V8s tend to be a solid, proven technology and I'm not sure what can go wrong with the manual transmissions under normal usage apart from wearing out a clutch. They seem pretty straight forward. I'd hope the mission critical stuff is pretty solid (drivetrain, suspension, etc.) so you're not stranded somewhere.

It may be completely irrational on my part but I get a sense that a 370z would be more reliable. Though I have nothing to base this on. Maybe it's just the hype or conventional wisdom / reputation of Japanese cars being more reliable that American cars.






base model C6
Is on my list of possible Armada replacements.

:? I know the Corvette's have a 22 cu ft cargo volume but I wouldn't think it'd be comparable to an Armada. Not to mention the disparity in towing capacity between the Vette and the Armada. :D





.

[John V]

Based on the reading I've done on C5s, they seem to have fewer issues than the typical 3 series. On a 3 series, you're pretty much guaranteed to need a water pump, radiator, trailing arm bushings, etc on a pretty regular schedule (whether people do indeed treat this as routine maintenance or not is another issue altogether). The same isn't really true of the Vette - there isn't any one piece that fails after a given amount of time. And the cars aren't particularly maitenance intensive.

The early C5s have some niggling problems that were rectified by '03 or '04 (depending on the issue) including front control arm bushing walk (on cars that have been autocrossed/tracked), premature wear of swaybar endlinks, and malfunctioning steering column locks. But later cars don't suffer from them.

Then again, Vettes typically amass much lower per-year mileage than BMWs - so it's hard to say.

The main issues you're going to have with a Corvette are dealing with some of the low rent stuff (seat leather wears quickly) and replacing rear tires frequently. I can deal with those issues.

[equ]

I think the Elise is a love it / hate it kind of car. I love it. I would commute in it. I would take it when we go out to dinner. I'd take it to the grocery store. I'd drive it out to Nebraska if I had to. But I suspect most people aren't like me, and the initial lust would wear off pretty quickly because it is loud, stiff, harsh, boomy and totally incapable of dealing with pot holes and frost heaves.

The only reservation I have about you buying an early 987S is that you're going to love it so much you'll be kicking yourself in 6 months for not waiting and getting the two-year-newer car with the extra power. Or the four-year-newer car with the LSD. Or the next special version Porsche comes out with. And these cars depreciate fast, so trading up gets expensive very quickly. When I had my 986 I was always lusting after the 987. Last thought on this - the early 987 is going to depreciate a lot more dramatically than the later ones.

I have a lot of sympathy for you when it comes to perseverating about car buying. I'm the same way, I just do it internally. My strategy was always to spend as much time as possible searching out cars on the forums, cars.com, carmax, autotrader, and eBay. I'd whittle it down to ones I really wanted to go see in person and drive. Once I did that I pretty quickly converged on a solution and I've owned some really good examples. What's interesting is I had very little interest in a Boxster until I drove one. It didn't take long to fall in love.

The only exception was the Z06, which (although I'd wanted one since they came out) I didn't deliberate over. I just pulled the trigger when it became available. I had been internally debating for five years: I want this car -> I can't deal with the general crumminess of it -> I WANT THIS CAR. :) Eventually I just had to try it.

For the most part this is the best response so far. I do think the Elise is a bad idea for someone who's never owned even a comfy 2-seater, it is quite a big step. The 986/987 in any variant is basically great, as it is an intro to porsches/sports cars etc.

I don't buy the early 987 depreciation argument. They already have depreciated. My 06 Cayman S, in close to new condition, with 17xxx miles is basically $30k in trade-in (depending on what you trade it in for, perhaps 31-31.5k at a porsche dealer). And this doesn't make me want the 987.2 badly as from my POV, the changes are minor, the biggest weaknesses of the car are still there and now you have to fork out $60k.

The 987 is the perfect gateway drug. It is the appropriate step up from the zhp. From the 987, go to a 911 if you wish (or when the babies grow). Go back to the sedan/135/M3 world if you wish and somehow could (it'll be hard because now you know what you'll be missing). Go further and get an elise/atom what not if you're even more hardcore (few are).

[clyde]

Yeah, I do know that. . . . still.

;)

BTW, I haven't bothered to research it but how is the reliability / maintenance cost / upkeep / etc. of the C6's? I would hope they are at least average. About the same as a BMW 3 series? Better (lower) repair costs? Worse reliability? And any idea on what tends to fail? The SB V8s tend to be a solid, proven technology and I'm not sure what can go wrong with the manual transmissions under normal usage apart from wearing out a clutch. They seem pretty straight forward. I'd hope the mission critical stuff is pretty solid (drivetrain, suspension, etc.) so you're not stranded somewhere.

It may be completely irrational on my part but I get a sense that a 370z would be more reliable. Though I have nothing to base this on. Maybe it's just the hype or conventional wisdom / reputation of Japanese cars being more reliable that American cars.

I've kept myself purposefully ignorant to some extent. I know that like most first model year cars, the 2005 had some teething issues (and, of course, the one I'm looking at is a 2005), but I don't think anything major, and subsequent years have gotten better and better.

IME, using a broad brush, American cars have, in general, have been quite good in terms of mechanical reliability/durability for the past 20 years or so (exceptions exist to be sure...such as transmissions in many Chrysler prodcuts). The most common problems have been more cosmetic in nature like lousy paint that flakes off in just a few years, headliner adhesive giving up the ghost in short order, easily broken switchgear, etc. Electronics seem to as reliable (or not, depending on perspective) as in Asian or European cars.

In the context of the C6 Corvette, I wouldn't be any more or less concerned with a 2005 than I would a 2005 anything else. Parts can be had relativley cheaply and there's a significant supply. In fact, compared to many other cars, I'd be more comfortable with the idea of a Corvette than most others due to the fact that the cars are desireable and there are many third parties that make parts for them, either as improvements over stock, or stock replacements...and since people hang on to these cars compared to others, the supply should remain plentiful for many years to come.

:? I know the Corvette's have a 22 cu ft cargo volume but I wouldn't think it'd be comparable to an Armada. Not to mention the disparity in towing capacity between the Vette and the Armada. :D

The morning of the day I wound up buying (er, ordering) my 325xiT wagon in late 2001, I had woken up expecting to buy a 1998 C5 Vette (um, could have been a '99, can't quite remember now). That Vette wasn't at all how it had been described to me in the ad or over the phone ("perfect" "needs nothing" etc turned into "why is this tire bald, that one have a bit of tread, and these two full tread? And why are there 3 brands of tires?" "why is the steering wheel pointed 10 degrees to the right when driving straight?" and "what's with the ripped up carpeting?") and after lunch, we went to the BMW dealer.

Primary purpose for the Aramda was to tow the autocross car. In two years, we didn't tow nearly as much as I expected and plans for this year changed to where towing wasn't going to be as much of a necessity. Next year? :dunno: I also learned that for towing a race car, I want more payload capacity that I'd only get with a 3/4 ton truck/suv. It doesn't take much for a half ton SUV to max out on gross weight when it's carrying 2 people, 2 sets of wheels/tires, tools, and ~600 lbs of tounge weight. Secondary purposes were to be a family trip vehicle (it's been awesome for that), people mover (it's been very good at that, too), crap hauler (OMGWTFBBQ!!! Can't imagine much better for when we moved with all the trips to the dump and moving shit around), and scratch an itch I had (meh, but served its now scratched).

So, no, there's no comparison between a Vette and Armada in any sense, but the primary need the Armada satisfied is no longer present (and if it presents itself again next year or later in the future, it will be met with a cheaper and more suitable vehicle). Even with two children, reality for my family is still such that we don't *need* two four (or more) passenger vehicles. Having a second falls into the "nice to have, but not *needed*" category. I will probably end up with something that has a back seat, but some of the cars on the list (like the C6 and 370Z) don't have them, and that's fine.

[John V]

I lied about that being my last thought.

When I got my 986, my first thought was "wow, this is a lot different than my E36 M3." Different in that it's much lower so ingress / egress was more challenging, visibility with the top up sucked, it was noisier inside (though it was a good noise), the gas mileage wasn't as good, the ride was harsh... you get the point. Of course all those "downsides" were offset by the fact that it was a real sports car - the M3 was not.

Thinking about FC's situation, he's considering going from an E46 330 to an Elise. Shit, that's moving more off center than in my situation - on both ends! The ZHP is a bunch more cushy and refined than my M3 was, and the Elise is way more rough and tumble than my 986 was. Some people love that kind of move (I do), but for someone who has never owned a sports car, I wouldn't recommend it.

equ, my point about 987 depreciation is that the early BOXSTERS are going to be much less desirable than the later model ones, because why buy a 3.2L car when you can put in a teensy bit more cash and get the 3.4L? The Cayman always had the 3.4, so it's kind of a non-issue. I think a 3.4L car would depreciate less and thus be better for a possibly short-term trial. 987 prices will continue to fall just like 986 prices have.

[equ]

JV, we're in complete agreement. ;)

[rumatt]

PS

Screw all of you for reminding me that I want a Cayman.

[lemming]

JV, we're in complete agreement. ;)

three for three.

if possible, i'd hang on for the 3.4L 987 if not for the full-on DI 3.4L 987.2.

it's definitely worth it, in my test driving (and this is recent) opinion.

in the past 2 months i've sampled the 2.7, the 3.2 and the 3.4. i prefer the 3.4 the most (obviously).

overall, though, i'd prefer the non-plussed and non-stressed behavior of the LSx engines more, though.

now that Porsche has seen fit to really give the mid-engine platform serious power, the 911 has completely fallen off of my radar forever.

[FC]

three for three.

if possible, i'd hang on for the 3.4L 987 if not for the full-on DI 3.4L 987.2.

it's definitely worth it, in my test driving (and this is recent) opinion.

in the past 2 months i've sampled the 2.7, the 3.2 and the 3.4. i prefer the 3.4 the most (obviously).

overall, though, i'd prefer the non-plussed and non-stressed behavior of the LSx engines more, though.

now that Porsche has seen fit to really give the mid-engine platform serious power, the 911 has completely fallen off of my radar forever.

C'mon now. You guys know I've been a Boxster fan since way back before the bimmerfest days. And I've been cheering all the 987 upgrades as they came out.

Bottomline, only a 2005 987S can compete $-wise with an early Elise. As I've said before, I have no problem (provided the whole sportscar thing works out) with trading up to a used DFI 987S in a few years (either from an a early 987S or an Elise). But a new 987S is a non-starter, and even a cheap 3.4L 987S is almost impossible. I really shouldn't be looking at cars now anyhow, but in the interest of getting the most out of the nice driving months, I'm being a tad irresponsible. I can't push my luck.

FWIW, the test drive is scheduled for this Sat @ noon. I'll try to find out then what the Elise is all about.

[FC]

PS

Screw all of you for reminding me that I want a Cayman.

If I find a cobalt blue (actually not even very picky about color) '06 Cayman S for anywhere near $35K, I may do something stupid.


...and then that invariably get sme back to, why not just look for a great '02-'04 911. Or sell the ZHP and get up to $45K towards 911. Dammit, stick to the plan!

[lupinsea]

Wait, what was the plan again this time? :stickpoke::D

[lupinsea]

Thanks for the background on the Corvettes. That allays my concerns a bit. My wife would take serious issue with a Corvette, though. She sees it as a rich man's Camaro and all the imagery that conjures. Can't say there isn't a twinge of that sterotype in the back of my head, but it's small and I can respect the Corvette for what it is.

[clyde]

Thanks for the background on the Corvettes. That allays my concerns a bit. My wife would take serious issue with a Corvette, though. She sees it as a rich man's Camaro and all the imagery that conjures. Can't say there isn't a twinge of that sterotype in the back of my head, but it's small and I can respect the Corvette for what it is.
that's it...i'm photoshopping some gold chains onto a photo of john and sticking that on top of a photo of his red corvette

[FC]

My wife would take serious issue with a Corvette, though. She sees it as a rich man's Camaro and all the imagery that conjures. Can't say there isn't a twinge of that sterotype in the back of my head, but it's small and I can respect the Corvette for what it is.

:+1 x 1000

[FC]

Me like. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=259425979&dealer_id=63879359&car_year=2006&rdm=1235357388003&model=CAYMAN&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2006&keywordsfyc=__Uw,,__&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=083&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=POR&keywords_display=S&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=distance&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=distance&address=02021&advanced=y&end_year=2007&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=463&standard=false&rdpage=thumb)

[equ]

If I find a cobalt blue (actually not even very picky about color) '06 Cayman S for anywhere near $35K, I may do something stupid.


...and then that invariably get sme back to, why not just look for a great '02-'04 911. Or sell the ZHP and get up to $45K towards 911. Dammit, stick to the plan!

$35-36k should get you a decent 06 Cayman S.

[lemming]

$35-36k should get you a decent 06 Cayman S.

which would be my personal preference here relative to the Elise.

subjective, mostly.

[FC]

which would be my personal preference here relative to the Elise.

subjective, mostly.

I have trouble finding any Cayman S for under $40K. That one I linked clearly just had a stiff $5K pricecut. Maybe it can be had for $38K, but that is a whole $10K more than a nice Elise goes for.

Let's wait until tomorrow when I drive the Elise. That will answer a lot of questions.

[equ]

I have trouble finding any Cayman S for under $40K.

Really? Are you only looking for loaded or CPO ones?

[lemming]

I have trouble finding any Cayman S for under $40K. That one I linked clearly just had a stiff $5K pricecut. Maybe it can be had for $38K, but that is a whole $10K more than a nice Elise goes for.

Let's wait until tomorrow when I drive the Elise. That will answer a lot of questions.

absolutely.

am looking forward to your thoughts!

[SARAFIL]

Here is a nice CPO '07 (3.4) Boxster...

http://www.inskip.com/Preowned-Inventory.aspx?InventoryId=26965498

;)

[lemming]

Here is a nice CPO '07 (3.4) Boxster...

http://www.inskip.com/Preowned-Inventory.aspx?InventoryId=26965498

;)

thanks.

i really wanted the driveway full with a 4th car again.

[SARAFIL]

thanks.

i really wanted the driveway full with a 4th car again.


hey, I didn't win with car #3 so I'm taking one last shot before I leave!!!

:lol:

[SARAFIL]

thanks.

i really wanted the driveway full with a 4th car again.


option list is not too bad either:

M6Z - Floor Mats Interior Color
692 - Remote CD Changer (6 Disc)
P15 - Power Seat Package
P74 - Bi-Xenon Headlamp Package
680 - Bose High End Sound Package
551 - Porsche Windstop (Deflector)
P12 - Self-Dim Mirrors & Rain Sensor
446 - Wheel Caps with Colored Crest
PPB - Preferred Package Plus
342 - Heated Front Seats

[JST]

That's a nice car, but ugh--silver? WTF is with people buying silver Porsches? The only cars that should come in silver are Lexuses and Camrys. If you have so little personality that you want a car that not only has no color but is also neither black nor white but somewhere right...in...between, you shouldn't be buying a Porsche.

[equ]

Silver is nice on a cayman or a 911 but not so much in a boxster. I agree.

My final comment is that within 987's, you should drive both the boxster & the cayman, preferably back to back and with the same engine. With the same drivetrain and paper specs, they should be almost the same, one would think. However, the feel you get from them may be different. Even if the machines are close, the human reaction when in them can be different. E.g., the open top of the boxster may allow other enjoyments and make it a better cruiser. The cayman is that extra bit more focused, there is nothing to look at except the road, and the body/frame feels stiffer. So don't assume they are identical.

[SARAFIL]

That's a nice car, but ugh--silver? WTF is with people buying silver Porsches? The only cars that should come in silver are Lexuses and Camrys. If you have so little personality that you want a car that not only has no color but is also neither black nor white but somewhere right...in...between, you shouldn't be buying a Porsche.


True, but if I look at the vast majority of cars that they sell next door... well, they are basically black, white, or some shade of silver/grey in between. Every once in a while a blue, red, yellow, orange, green, etc.

While it is a bit dull, it is also "safe" for resale. Bright colors are typically "love it or hate it."

[FC]

Here is a nice CPO '07 (3.4) Boxster...

http://www.inskip.com/Preowned-Inventory.aspx?InventoryId=26965498

;)

Nice enough. I'll keep it in mind. But silver is not a favorite. If that car were cobalt blue, or yellow, or even white, I would be very interested.

[FC]

Really? Are you only looking for loaded or CPO ones?

Nope. Do a search. Very few ask $40K or less within 500 miles of Boston.

[equ]

I know if I sold mine, I don't think I could sell for more than $36k privately. If it is worth as much as 40k, perhaps I should sell. :)

[FC]

I know if I sold mine, I don't think I could sell for more than $36k privately. If it is worth as much as 40k, perhaps I should sell. :)

Well the one I linked is a pretty great car. Very low miles, lots of equipment, and CPO warranty and a cool color - all for $40. But that is the best I've found.

[ZBB]

That's a nice car, but ugh--silver? WTF is with people buying silver Porsches? The only cars that should come in silver are Lexuses and Camrys. If you have so little personality that you want a car that not only has no color but is also neither black nor white but somewhere right...in...between, you shouldn't be buying a Porsche.


Um... Silver is appropriate for a German car -- its one of two national racing colors for Germany -- the other being white...

[ff]

That's a nice car, but ugh--silver? WTF is with people buying silver Porsches? The only cars that should come in silver are Lexuses and Camrys. If you have so little personality that you want a car that not only has no color but is also neither black nor white but somewhere right...in...between, you shouldn't be buying a Porsche.

Why so judgmental? Different folks... different strokes.

[JST]

Why so judgmental? Different folks... different strokes.

That would be fine, if there were in fact "different" strokes. But there aren't. Every freaking person orders silver, which makes it hard for me to find a non-silver car to buy used.

[clyde]

That would be fine, if there were in fact "different" strokes. But there aren't. Every freaking person orders silver, which makes it hard for me to find a non-silver car to buy used.

http://www.earlscheib.com/images/Earl_Scheib_logo.jpg

[ff]

Is that still "the home of the $99 paint job"?

[FC]

Insurance quotes: Elise $728/year, '02 JGC (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=260003994&dealer_id=100025094&car_year=2002&rdm=1241183845924&num_records=100&model=JEEPGRAND&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=100&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&sownerid=75208&showZipError=n&make=JEEP&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&) $506/year. Not bad.

[ff]

Insurance quotes: Elise $728/year, '02 JGC (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=260003994&dealer_id=100025094&car_year=2002&rdm=1241183845924&num_records=100&model=JEEPGRAND&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=100&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&sownerid=75208&showZipError=n&make=JEEP&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&) $506/year. Not bad.

That's about $300/year cheaper than it costs me to insure the S2000.

[clyde]

Insurance quotes: Elise $728/year, '02 JGC (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=260003994&dealer_id=100025094&car_year=2002&rdm=1241183845924&num_records=100&model=JEEPGRAND&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=100&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&sownerid=75208&showZipError=n&make=JEEP&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceASC&) $506/year. Not bad.

When the subject comes up, I find that I'm still slightly amused by the fact that the RX-8 was less expensive to insure than the Altima it replaced.

[clyde]

Is that still "the home of the $99 paint job"?

the cheapest they have listed on their site is now $359.99

[lemming]

the cheapest they have listed on their site is now $359.99

a few years ago, i would have been deadset against the boxster mostly because it is a convertible and i hate those cars. you give up a lot in order to have that top lowered.

so that favors the Cayman.

but with the same engine, my fickleness and the potentially greater audience for the boxster, the more conservative choice for a serial car buyer is the boxster.

same for color, i think. i like white and yellow and the midnight blue but silver is completely resellable.

[ff]

the cheapest they have listed on their site is now $359.99

It's an extra $50 if you want them to wash the dirt off the car before spraying it.

[wdc330i]

True, but if I look at the vast majority of cars that they sell next door... well, they are basically black, white, or some shade of silver/grey in between. Every once in a while a blue, red, yellow, orange, green, etc.

While it is a bit dull, it is also "safe" for resale. Bright colors are typically "love it or hate it."

Love the orange.

[wdc330i]

When the subject comes up, I find that I'm still slightly amused by the fact that the RX-8 was less expensive to insure than the Altima it replaced.

Fewer owners=fewer accidents.

[Alan]

FC ... I am not busting chops but am seriously wondering ... doesn't it drive you crazy to always ponder what car to get next.

Seriously, I had to decide in the last 2 weeks what to do with the 335i as the 2 yr lease was up and it drove me nuts trying to decide which route to go plus I really don't enjoy the buying process anymore between test driving and having to sit with the salesperson afterwards it just isn't fun.

I was actually relieved to make the decision and go on ...

[equ]

AF, so what did you do? If I were you, unless the resid is very low, I'd let them take the 335i back.

[Alan]

AF, so what did you do? If I were you, unless the resid is very low, I'd let them take the 335i back.

Equ ... I decided last Wednesday to get a MB C350, picked it up thursday and returned the 335i on Friday ...

They were offering me the 335 (which had only 16k miles) for $29k and change which I thought was a good deal but decided to get a new car because it's always nice having something new ...

Thanks for asking :thumbup:

[Rob]

Alan, you will have to give us a six month report about whether you can stand to drive the Mercedes after having the 335 for two years. Or maybe 3 months, before the differences wear off. My brother just test drove a CLS 550 (since they have come down to ridiculous prices) and was moping around for days. He really wanted the car, but after driving an e39 for a couple years, he couldn't stand the way the CLS drove. On the other hand, the CLS probably weighs 6000 pounds and the C class won't, but still.

[equ]

Cool! A good friend of mine got a staggering deal on a new leftover C350 at the end of last year (like 10k off the 41k msrp). However, he basically risked his marriage with his obsessive car/bargain-hunting.

It's a very nice car, perhaps more like the 330i than the 335i. Less sporty than the 3er and not necessarily more luxurious, but I'd say a bit lower on the fuss factor, probably just as good day in day out, with real tires (only 17") and generally more of a normal car than the weird things new bimmers have become. But then again, only $29k for a 335 is tempting too.

[Alan]

Cool! A good friend of mine got a staggering deal on a new leftover C350 at the end of last year (like 10k off the 41k msrp). However, he basically risked his marriage with his obsessive car/bargain-hunting.

It's a very nice car, perhaps more like the 330i than the 335i. Less sporty than the 3er and not necessarily more luxurious, but I'd say a bit lower on the fuss factor, probably just as good day in day out, with real tires (only 17") and generally more of a normal car than the weird things new bimmers have become. But then again, only $29k for a 335 is tempting too.

You hit it right ... powerwise it is definitely closer to the 330i. Mine had an MSRP of $46.5 (it's got all the crap, Nav, 18" AMG wheels/tires, panaromic sunroof,etc) they discounted it down to $41.3k though I did a 2 yr lease since this seems to be working for me pretty good lately.

[Alan]

Alan, you will have to give us a six month report about whether you can stand to drive the Mercedes after having the 335 for two years. Or maybe 3 months, before the differences wear off. My brother just test drove a CLS 550 (since they have come down to ridiculous prices) and was moping around for days. He really wanted the car, but after driving an e39 for a couple years, he couldn't stand the way the CLS drove. On the other hand, the CLS probably weighs 6000 pounds and the C class won't, but still.

Sorry for the thread Hi jack ...

I was never a Mercedes type but since we got the GL450 last September, I have really started to like it. Either Mercedes have gotten better to drive or I am getting worse :eeps:

I wasn't a fan of the E class but was surprised by the C class .. my brother who has the 328xi coupe was surprised as well ... it really does have a 3er type feel.

I can already tell you the 335i is much faster and is more of a sports car ... it had such an awesome feel, the C cannot replace it perfectly but I did not want to drive the same exact car for another 2 yrs.

Here are some of the good things though, the steering while lighter has instant turn-in response and is really the biggest surprise in a good way. It just feels good, also the 18" sport tires really grip and while the car has a taut feel, it does not Smash bumps like the 335 with the run flats did.

The downside is the engine sounds like a sewing machine and the transmission does not kick down as quick as I would like it to though the car only has 240 miles on it ... time will tell if this tranny learns my driving style.


I'll post back about it in 6 months ... hopefully I will still be enjoying it !!

[clyde]

Fewer owners=fewer accidents.

fewer owners=smaller risk pool

My guess was that the the Altima had comparatively high theft loss rate to what they were predicting for the RX-8 at the time.

[clyde]

I wasn't a fan of the E class but was surprised by the C class .. my brother who has the 328xi coupe was surprised as well ... it really does have a 3er type feel.

I liked the styling of the previous gen E class, but I really, really dig the new C class. I wouldn't expect to enjoy the driving dynamics as much as an E90, but that C class looks really good...

[equ]

I have driven two merc's rather extensively. The CLS550 and the C350. I far prefer the C350 in almost every way (except perhaps perceived exclusivity, v8 torque and quietness). Even on the highway, an expected strong point, the CLS was a chore. Bad seats and visibility to boot.

[zach]

I liked the styling of the previous gen E class, but I really, really dig the new C class. I wouldn't expect to enjoy the driving dynamics as much as an E90, but that C class looks really good...

I REALLY like the look of the new C class. I wish they made a wagon instead of that silly little SUV they've added.

[JST]

I REALLY like the look of the new C class. I wish they made a wagon instead of that silly little SUV they've added.

And had an engine that makes actual horsepower. And gave it a stick. And put a suspension in it that isn't biased toward DeutscheBuick.

[zach]

And had an engine that makes actual horsepower. And gave it a stick. And put a suspension in it that isn't biased toward DeutscheBuick.

Yes, all of that would be nice. I'll take a C63 wagon with a stick.

Edit: you can actually get a C300 with a stick...

[JST]

Yes, all of that would be nice. I'll take a C63 wagon with a stick.

Edit: you can actually get a C300 with a stick...

That car seems almost as pointless as the IS250.

[lemming]

That car seems almost as pointless as the IS250.

W o w.

that was funny.

:lol:

[Alan]

That car seems almost as pointless as the IS250.

Absolutely agree 100% ...

[equ]

That car seems almost as pointless as the IS250.

Why? What's wrong with giving people that choice?

[FC]

Yes, all of that would be nice. I'll take a C63 wagon with a stick.

Edit: you can actually get a C300 with a stick...

I am still secretly considering a very depreciated E63 wagon to replace the V70R years down the road.

[FC]

So new wrinkle (I think my wife just did a royal bait & switch)... I have to sell the BMW since we both agreed we'd get a cheap jeep and she is not allowing 4 cars. I may just be ok with that. Her other part is that she will drop of the kids at daycare once a week so I can drive my sportscar to work at least that one day a week. But if that's the case, all of a sudden the Elise becomes a bit more than a crazy weekend toy, and the balance shifts more towards a P-car. At the same time, since the 330i is gone the budget can be bumped a bit (to say upper 30's) getting me to cheap '06 Caymans and if lucky a 3.4L 987S. And there's always a late, well-kept 996 C2.

I'll still wait until tomorrow's Elise test-drive and the ensuing Cayman S/3.4L 987S test drive I'm planning to make any semblance of a decision.

[clyde]

You should just place the titles of your vehicles and a quantity of money into a blind trust to be administered by JST for the sole purpose of buying and selling your vehicles.

[FC]

You should just place the titles of your vehicles and a quantity of money into a blind trust to be administered by JST for the sole purpose of buying and selling your vehicles.

:lol:

[ff]

That car seems almost as pointless as the IS250.

The IS is better looking than the 3 Series sedan, and is a much better value apples to apples. I'll bet more reliable too. For people that aren't cocks, the Lexus is a pretty nice option.

[clyde]

:lol:

sure, go ahead and laugh...deep down, though, I know that you you know it would be for the best ;)

[clyde]

For people that aren't cocks, the Lexus is a pretty nice option.

Is that why you got of yours so quickly? :p

[Rob]

You haven't driven an IS250, have you ff?

[equ]

Umm, didn't he own one of the rare manual IS's?

[equ]

You should just place the titles of your vehicles and a quantity of money into a blind trust to be administered by JST for the sole purpose of buying and selling your vehicles.

+1000

:lol::lol::lol:

[SARAFIL]

You haven't driven an IS250, have you ff?

I think he owned one for like a week... or maybe it was an IS350?

The IS350 is not bad... the IS250 is slow as a slug.

[equ]

Well, at least, like the c300, the IS250 comes with a manual. I give props to people buying manual IS's and C-classes.

On a separate note, equ's gf spun out the IS250 (awd/AT) after the 328xi and new a4 on the same track, it just didn't have a lot of grip.

[ff]

Is that why you got of yours so quickly? :p

I wanted to make sure that someone else could share in the quality and value of the IS. So I did my part, and passed it on.

:D

[John V]

The IS250 makes absolutely no sense, unless BMW stops selling the 3 series.

[ff]

The IS250 makes absolutely no sense, unless BMW stops selling the 3 series.

Again, it's more bang for the buck, and it's better looking. Different strokes, different folks.

[John V]

More bang for the buck? How do you figure?

[ff]

More bang for the buck? How do you figure?

Compare the features list and prices. At least a few years ago, the Lexus offered a lot more, for significantly less $$$.

[Sharp11]

The IS250 makes absolutely no sense, unless BMW stops selling the 3 series.

As a direct competitor, you're right, it doesn't make sense - most hard-core BMW shoppers aren't going to go Lexus.

However, the buyer who wants something a little sporty with a little more luxury and the comfort of a reliable badge, for less $, would probably find the Lexus iteration ideal.

In the latter case, it makes a lot of sense.

Ed

[FC]

Nah, I don't want a corvette right now (plus my wife hates them). It would be awesome to own an Exige S years down the road when the kids are a bit older to have as a track/autox car.

[Alan]

Nah, I don't want a corvette right now (plus my wife hates them). It would be awesome to own an Exige S years down the road when the kids are a bit older to have as a track/autox car.

Best of luck, the Exige is an awesome great car though I would expect it to ride very hard on real roads ...


BTW I edited my original post because I did not like the way it read, somehow it sounded better in my mind then it did in writing ...