View Full Version : M3 v. M5 v. CTS-V v. G8 GXP
The list in the heading will not surprise anyone. What may surprise you is the relative prices of the various options--it kind of surprised me, since I hadn't really been paying attention.
2002-2003 M5s with mileages in the 50s to 70s can be had for 32-25K (!!).
2005 CTS-V with mileages from 6K (in one case) to 30K can be had for right around 30.
The GXP will be new and will probably be 40.
The M3 is 60K now (optioned the way I would want it) and is probably going to be more by the time I am ready to pull the trigger in a couple of months.
I've often said that the M5 underwhelms me, and it does...but at 25-30K, the balance really shifts. It's a damn impressive car for the same money as an Accord. I'd be sold if it wasn't for one thing: how much is that thing going to cost to run? There are lots of scary sounding problems on M5board (including the carbon buildup issue). Not such an economical choice if you are blowing 8 grand to clean carbon out of the emissions controls.
The CTS-V I have to think would be cheaper to keep on the road, especially since it would be both newer and lower mileage. I've come close twice before--is now the right time? My beefs with the CTS-V remain the steering wheel position, the craptastic interior, and the lack of Bluetooth/iPod functionality, which are kind of stupid but also kind of important in a daily driver.
The GXP would be cheapest of all to run, being new and under warranty, but whereas the M5 and (to a lesser extent) the CTS-V have passed the steepest slope of their depreciation curve, the GXP (which starts out more expensive) is going to drop in value like a stone. It'll have Bluetooth and an aux in jack, though, both of which are disproportionately important to me.
The M3 makes no sense at all, but I kind of want one anyway.
FWIW, given what has happened to the credit markets, I'm thinking leasing is off the table for the next car purchase.
armaq
08-04-2008, 04:36 PM
When are you buying? Maybe wait for a slightly used GXP
When are you buying? Maybe wait for a slightly used GXP
Gotta do it sooner than that--NLT December or January; I'll actually be lucky if the new GXPs are on the lot.
I was tempted by this this (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=244556072) one.
rumatt
08-04-2008, 05:09 PM
I was tempted by this this (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=244556072) one.
*cough* E90 M3 *cough*
That CEL for the M5 is not really a problem. Just get the chip to turn off the light and tell the DME to ignore the issue, it will pass emissions.
Your price is still high. 35K will buy you a nice 2003 with less than 50K miles.
When is G8 GXP on sale again?
Supposedly December.
So what do we think would be a reasonable estimate for running costs on an E39 M5?
So what do we think would be a reasonable estimate for running costs on an E39 M5?
http://www.geocities.com/colombianpryde/robot_arm_human.gif
http://www.80stees.com/images/products/Christmas_story_leg_lamp_large.jpg
I spoke to my mechanic at length about it, and other than gas, the big ticket items are:
1. Leaking valve covers (have them check during PPI).
2. Dead or going clutch (have them check during PPI).
3. Expensive 10/60 oil.
4. Nothing.
But 2003 has all the goodies of the last year MY, and since they are pretty reasonable, he suggests looking exclusively at 03.
I will get an extended warranty of warranty direct just to be sure.
Do you have a URL on Warranty Direct? Any issues buying one for a car out of a private sale?
http://www.warrantydirect.com/
It has served my MIL very very very very well on her 01 740.
They even covered the control arm!? when it was just the bushing that needed replacing.
The only weird quirky thing was that they covered radiator, but did not cover expansion tank. I mean, WTF!?:?
Speaking of WTF, they don't offer coverage on any BMW M cars in Virginia. They do in California, though.
This is the advantage of living in this communist ass state, sometimes.:lol:
How about MD? I know most of her claims are filed in MD, even thoug the coverage was originally purchased in MA.
No M car warranties in MA either.
This is the advantage of living in this communist ass state, sometimes.:lol:
How about MD? I know most of her claims are filed in MD, even thoug the coverage was originally purchased in MA.
Looks like only in California, though I didn't go through every state. DC, MD, VA, MA, NY...every other state is different. If you go to the top of the website when you select "CA," there's a link for "not a CA resident?" Perhaps there is some law in CA that requires you to offer coverage on all vehicles in a given model line? That would be weird, but I've seen weirder.
I spoke to my mechanic at length about it, and other than gas, the big ticket items are:
1. Leaking valve covers (have them check during PPI).
2. Dead or going clutch (have them check during PPI).
3. Expensive 10/60 oil.
4. Nothing.
But 2003 has all the goodies of the last year MY, and since they are pretty reasonable, he suggests looking exclusively at 03.
I will get an extended warranty of warranty direct just to be sure.
The only things that showed on my PPI were some hose and fuel line issues. Since been taken care of.
The PO had just purchased a fidelity platinum warrenty up to 100K miles which gave me piece of mind. Does not cover some major ware items but a lot more is covered then not. I just had to pay a $40 transfer fee.
http://www.fidelitywarrantyservices.com
They recently even replaced the nav unit using said warrenty. If not for that I would have had the same concerns as JST.
1. CTS-V awesome car but agree about the interior. The new one should just be amazing.
2. E90 M3 - More then I want to spend also.
3. G8 GXP - Great looking car. I still want to drive one when they come out but leasing would be the only way to get one new.
Edit - We took the M5 to Sonoma Saturday wine tasting. My mom was in town visiting from Boise. She loved the car and said things like "Oh listen to that" every time I leaned on it a little. haha Got to love mom.
My mom was in town visiting from Boise. She loved the car and said things like "Oh listen to that" every time I leaned on it a little.
:lol:
That's awesome. :D
$30k for the last generation CTS-V is way too much. If that's what they are going for right now, just wait until the new ones come out. They will drop like a rock. If I were making this choice (and I am not b/c I still LOVE the 335), I would look into after market solutions for the V for bluetooth and stuff. The m5 has nothing on it imo (except for that whole looks thing, inside and out) and I would expect to pay in the low 20s.
Sharp11
08-05-2008, 04:35 AM
In this month's Roundel, the tech guy advised someone an E39 M5 would be hugely expensive to maintain.
Ed
It's hard for me to imagine passing up a LeMans M5 for half as much as an M3. Really. Just how bad could a worst-case scenario be moneywise on an M5, new-motor bad, or just-a-few-$K bad?
It's hard for me to imagine passing up a LeMans M5 for half as much as an M3. Really. Just how bad could a worst-case scenario be moneywise on an M5, new-motor bad, or just-a-few-$K bad?
How bad? I mean, in theory one could buy a cherry M car with relatively low miles, hear a knocking sound, check the engine oil, find traces of minerals, and realize that one of the main bearings had spun. But the upside to that, as one person on this board knows, is the opportunity to become very intimately acquainted with all of the lubricated parts of your engine, and to teach yourself engine repair on one of Munich's finest.
Barring really catastrophic events like that, you'd probably need new struts and shocks quickly, unless those that BMW uses on the M5 are lots better than what they put on the M3. Maybe a new clutch. New bushings in various suspension pieces. A new radiator and cooling hose (I assume the S62 has the same cooling problems that plagued the other V8 5ers, but don't know for sure), and a water pump while you are at it. Oh, and the carbon build up issue, mentioned above.
If I were buying one, I think I'd mentally set aside $5K for maintenance/repairs in the first few months. I'm just wondering if that's enough.
I thought I read somewhere recently that they expect the new CTS-V to be ~$60k - I'm just saying.
How bad? I mean, in theory one could buy a cherry M car with relatively low miles, hear a knocking sound, check the engine oil, find traces of minerals, and realize that one of the main bearings had spun. But the upside to that, as one person on this board knows, is the opportunity to become very intimately acquainted with all of the lubricated parts of your engine, and to teach yourself engine repair on one of Munich's finest.
Barring really catastrophic events like that, you'd probably need new struts and shocks quickly, unless those that BMW uses on the M5 are lots better than what they put on the M3. Maybe a new clutch. New bushings in various suspension pieces. A new radiator and cooling hose (I assume the S62 has the same cooling problems that plagued the other V8 5ers, but don't know for sure), and a water pump while you are at it. Oh, and the carbon build up issue, mentioned above.
If I were buying one, I think I'd mentally set aside $5K for maintenance/repairs in the first few months. I'm just wondering if that's enough.
That's not too bad if you consider after that expense you're good re: the usual suspects for a LONG while. I mean, you don't have IMS failures to worry about that will require a new motor. That, for example, is what scares me about a pre '05 and to a lesser extent a pre 3.4L 987S. Dropping $10K on a new motor isn't cool - at all.
And if it's a cherry M5 you are looking at, some of that stuff has been taken care of or won't be due for a while due to the low miles. If it isn't, then presumably you got a good deal to offset the expense.
John V
08-05-2008, 09:54 AM
If the E39 M5 were entertaining to drive, this might all be a valid discussion. But it's not, so it isn't.
If the E39 M5 were entertaining to drive, this might all be a valid discussion. But it's not, so it isn't.
:lol:
If the E39 M5 were entertaining to drive, this might all be a valid discussion. But it's not, so it isn't.
Ahh so very true but thats what opinoins are for and why different things sell to different people. You are a track junkie so it makes perfect sense.
I am not and the I love the power and refinment. Again to each there own. =)
John V
08-05-2008, 10:32 AM
I'm not a track junkie, I just like cars that feel good. The M5 is very old feeling.
I'm not a track junkie, I just like cars that feel good. The M5 is very old feeling.
True its not new at all but my 99 M3 felt very old to me as well and still ranks as one of the most fun cars I have owned. Its all your prespective.
I really like the E39 M5 and what it offers, one exception, the expensive repairs. If an E90 M3 was not $60k+ there would be one sitting in the garage tonight.
I really like the E39 M5 and what it offers, one exception, the expensive repairs. If an E90 M3 was not $60k+ there would be one sitting in the garage tonight.
Plus going forward the time of the cheap BMW lease is going the way of the DODO and the fact BMW no longer CPO's any M cars.
I'm not a track junkie, I just like cars that feel good. The M5 is very old feeling.
I need to go re-acquaint myself with the CTS-V, maybe this weekend. I recall preferring it to the M5, but it's been a couple of years since I've driven one.
I really like the E39 M5 and what it offers, one exception, the expensive repairs. If an E90 M3 was not $60k+ there would be one sitting in the garage tonight.
If E90 M3 values act like E60 M5 values, they should make a decent used car deal in a year or two.
I forgot about your initial lust for the V followed by your disgust with the steering wheel hitting your knee. That will not have changed. That problem will drive you crazy and you will regret getting the car every day when you feel like ripping the wheel off the car and throwing it out the window. Cross if off your list.
If E90 M3 values act like E60 M5 values, they should make a decent used car deal in a year or two.
Yes. But wouldn't that mean a similar collapse for 328's and 330's? How are 530's/545's/550's doing in light of the depressed M5 prices?
If E90 M3 values act like E60 M5 values, they should make a decent used car deal in a year or two.
:thumbup:
Maybe a tad longer?
:thumbup:
Maybe a tad longer?
Maybe...but if they are not CPO'ing them, you fall into the same complex-car-without-a-warranty trap that the E39 M5s are in after 4 years. I think 2 years is the sweet spot.
Eric Giles
08-05-2008, 05:34 PM
How bad? I mean, in theory one could buy a cherry M car with relatively low miles, hear a knocking sound, check the engine oil, find traces of minerals, and realize that one of the main bearings had spun. But the upside to that, as one person on this board knows, is the opportunity to become very intimately acquainted with all of the lubricated parts of your engine, and to teach yourself engine repair on one of Munich's finest.
Barring really catastrophic events like that, you'd probably need new struts and shocks quickly, unless those that BMW uses on the M5 are lots better than what they put on the M3. Maybe a new clutch. New bushings in various suspension pieces. A new radiator and cooling hose (I assume the S62 has the same cooling problems that plagued the other V8 5ers, but don't know for sure), and a water pump while you are at it. Oh, and the carbon build up issue, mentioned above.
If I were buying one, I think I'd mentally set aside $5K for maintenance/repairs in the first few months. I'm just wondering if that's enough.
Regarding the suspension-it's all original on my now 87k mile '00 M5 and I already have a full set of front control arms, thrust arms, tie rods, and all bushings ready to be installed. I am sure the struts/shocks need replacing, but honestly the ride is still fairly well damped and doesn't feel harsh. There aren't many suspension options for the E39 M5, and what is out there costs an arm and a leg. When I replace mine it will most likely be with Koni SA's which I have found to be around $800 for a set-the cheapest I have found. The only replacement Bilstein offers is a coilover setup, and at $2000 it just ain't gonna happen.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the carbon buildup issue-you absolutely don't have to have that $8000 cleanup job at the dealership done-just pay for the aftermarket software update that tells the ECU to ignore it.
Personally I would make sure that the clutch/flywheel assembly was recently changed, or at least make sure it isn't on the original clutch and has over 50-60k miles. It's not a matter of if, but when you are going to have to replace it during this timeframe. Mine was heavily slipping when I purchased it with almost 83k miles and it was the original setup. Due to the fact it had probably been slipping for a while, I replaced the flywheel with an OEM LuK part that was around $600, and the OEM LuK clutch kit for around $250. I do all the work on my cars so that helps keep the costs down-but I probably put around $4000 into mine almost immediately in parts cost alone. But keep in mind this includes new tires, diff bushings, some paint and body work, etc.-stuff that you probably wouldn't have to deal with on a private party purchase, but sometimes have to do on a car bought at auction.
My car isn't perfect-it shows some interior wear, still has a ding or two, chips in the windshield, the typical factory wheels are losing their finish issue, passenger seat airbag sensor is out, but for $16,500 I am not going to complain and I enjoy it everytime I drive it! I personally can't think of another car with this combination of performance, refinement, and fun to drive quotient that is avaliable for that kind of price.
I would just stop worrying about all the bad you hear and just BUY ONE!! :)
Maybe...but if they are not CPO'ing them, you fall into the same complex-car-without-a-warranty trap that the E39 M5s are in after 4 years. I think 2 years is the sweet spot.
Very good point! Eye opener...
Maybe...but if they are not CPO'ing them, you fall into the same complex-car-without-a-warranty trap that the E39 M5s are in after 4 years. I think 2 years is the sweet spot.
I bought my E39 (a lowly 530, not an M) when it was 2 years old. My CPO warranty still has about 8 months before it runs out (and I'm nowhere close to running out of miles on it).
I've already had enough issues with the car in my 3+ years of ownership that I will not keep it out of warranty. A/C system was completely replaced (compressor, heat exchanger unit and all plumbing) when the car was ~2.5 years old. Fluid leaks (fortunately not from the engine -- it was a steering fluid. Also had a misfire that was caused by bad spark plugs -- so they were replaced at ~55k miles, instead of the normal service interval of 100k. Also had a xenon bulb go out, again much earlier than expected.
Only the A/C and fluid leaks were covered under warranty -- the original OEM warranty. CPO hasn't covered any repairs yet -- and I was pissed that the early spark plug failure was not covered.
Just my experience... But if you go for the M5, expect issues.
Regarding the suspension-it's all original on my now 87k mile '00 M5 and I already have a full set of front control arms, thrust arms, tie rods, and all bushings ready to be installed. I am sure the struts/shocks need replacing, but honestly the ride is still fairly well damped and doesn't feel harsh. There aren't many suspension options for the E39 M5, and what is out there costs an arm and a leg. When I replace mine it will most likely be with Koni SA's which I have found to be around $800 for a set-the cheapest I have found. The only replacement Bilstein offers is a coilover setup, and at $2000 it just ain't gonna happen.
Honestly, I wouldn't worry about the carbon buildup issue-you absolutely don't have to have that $8000 cleanup job at the dealership done-just pay for the aftermarket software update that tells the ECU to ignore it.
Personally I would make sure that the clutch/flywheel assembly was recently changed, or at least make sure it isn't on the original clutch and has over 50-60k miles. It's not a matter of if, but when you are going to have to replace it during this timeframe. Mine was heavily slipping when I purchased it with almost 83k miles and it was the original setup. Due to the fact it had probably been slipping for a while, I replaced the flywheel with an OEM LuK part that was around $600, and the OEM LuK clutch kit for around $250. I do all the work on my cars so that helps keep the costs down-but I probably put around $4000 into mine almost immediately in parts cost alone. But keep in mind this includes new tires, diff bushings, some paint and body work, etc.-stuff that you probably wouldn't have to deal with on a private party purchase, but sometimes have to do on a car bought at auction.
My car isn't perfect-it shows some interior wear, still has a ding or two, chips in the windshield, the typical factory wheels are losing their finish issue, passenger seat airbag sensor is out, but for $16,500 I am not going to complain and I enjoy it everytime I drive it! I personally can't think of another car with this combination of performance, refinement, and fun to drive quotient that is avaliable for that kind of price.
I would just stop worrying about all the bad you hear and just BUY ONE!! :)
Easy for the BMW Wizard, aka Master Tech. ;)
Eric probably has more BMW wrenching experience than anyone else on mudgeons. It is truly amazing what he has accomplished. Now if I could convince him to get into P-Cars I would have a connection in MS that I would drive or tow to. :lol:
Eric Giles
08-05-2008, 09:08 PM
Easy for the BMW Wizard, aka Master Tech. ;)
Eric probably has more BMW wrenching experience than anyone else on mudgeons. It is truly amazing what he has accomplished. Now if I could convince him to get into P-Cars I would have a connection in MS that I would drive or tow to. :lol:
LOL I don't have a choice-it's the only way I can afford to own these BMW's!
Oh so THAT's what it's going to take to get your ass south of the TN line and pay a visit...hmmm....I always have been partial to some P-Cars.....
If you had little interest in an e39m5 two years ago, why would you now? I personally think there are better dailies and better track cars.
If you had little interest in an e39m5 two years ago, why would you now? I personally think there are better dailies and better track cars.
It's ~25K less expensive now than it was two years ago.
Seriously, the 03 value was hanging up high for quite a while.
Then 2008 came and the bottom fell out of it.
Good for me.:D
and me =)
Wow. That's a lot. I think we pay something like $1200/year. Of course, there is the geographic difference to go along with the automotive difference. Kids probably help too.
Oh yeah, how's insurance on the car?
Do I get to expect a big drop from my GT2?
I mean, GT2 and E30 cost me 3500 bucks a year for 40K miles a year. And I am old and married.:eek:
We are pretty lucky insurance wise. We use USAA becasue the SO's Dad was a colonel. Not sure what the current rate is. Its pretty low but I dont really handle the books. =)
lupinsea
08-11-2008, 03:23 PM
The take away is that E46 M3's must be crashed at some incredible frequency to have such lousy risk rating.
Not surprising considering the typical demographics of the guys I see driving them. Which is basically, the immature import tuner crowd who has gotten enough money to afford something nicer than a pimped out Civic.
Wow. That's a lot. I think we pay something like $1200/year. Of course, there is the geographic difference to go along with the automotive difference. Kids probably help too.
That's ~ roughly what we pay on the S2000. I believe that it's right around $1100.
I pay about $1400 for both the 330i and the V70R. I used to pay $2K for my 10y.o. 190E when I was 21.
John V
08-11-2008, 04:34 PM
The take away is that E46 M3's must be crashed at some incredible frequency to have such lousy risk rating.
No surprise. It's an incredibly fast car but it doesn't have the suspension to back up the power. :dunno:
That $1200 number was for the 335 and the van for us. The van is not cheap to insure for some reason either. Probably b/c of all the wizbang motors and sensors that would have to be replaced if it were in an accident.
That $1200 number was for the 335 and the van for us.
Seems very reasonable. My $1100 number is for the Honda only. I'm yet to see what the 4Runner will come in at, but I would have to guess somewhere in the neighborhood of $850/year. The problem with FL is a lot of people driving around without insurance, and a high accident rate (hurray for all the bad drivers).
John V
08-11-2008, 09:31 PM
All this talk about rates is kind of meaningless because we all probably have very different coverage.
lemming
08-11-2008, 09:33 PM
All this talk about rates is kind of meaningless because we all probably have very different coverage.
since when has that mattered, if ever? :group:
Maybe John, but I have pretty high coverage on both cars. The most we could get in most categories I think.
The biggest difference that I can tell is the zip code.
Some additional info, FWIW. From what I can tell, there does not exist a space saver spare option for either the E90 M3 or the E39 M5; the various boards are full of people bitching about the lack of a spare and proposing various arcane options (996tt wheels, X3 wheels, E46 wheels, GM wheels, E60 wheels, etc.), but in neither case have I come across a post where someone has actually gotten something to work. Some of the M5 guys carry a full size wheel in their trunk, but as you can imagine that eliminates 2/3 of the cargo space.
That's actually a pretty big deal for me. Perhaps I am irrational, but given that one of the key purposes of this car would be road trips, I am not willing to end up by the side of the road with a flat and no spare, especially in the middle of BFE.
So...I am not going to say that these cars are entirely off the table, but they are pretty close.
The CTS-V, apparently, can easily accommodate an extra wheel in the trunk well, though finding 6 lug wheels is a PITA (Tire Rack no longer sells them). I assume that the GXP will also be able to take a spare wheel, as the G8 GT has a space (though it doesn't come with a spare from the factory).
Another option is the '03 540, which is also really cheap these days, and I remember back a few years ago driving a 540 and an M5 back to back and thinking that the 540 was perfectly pleasant compared to the M5, for familyish duties.
I'd like for the 550 or 545 to be an option, too--they're newer but not much more money (mid 30s), and the ramped up engine power would be nice. But they are so freaking ugly.
You can buy the CTS parts for something like $80 and have the proper securing hardware and a jack for the CTS-V. The trick to finding the spare is to lurk on the CTS-V boards and wait until someone sells theirs off b/c they bought aftermarket rims. Or e-bay. That might not work as well now since they aren't new anymore. You can get a cheap six lug wheel from tirerack too, iirc. Who cares what it looks like? It's a spare.
Perhaps I am irrational, but given that one of the key purposes of this car would be road trips, I am not willing to end up by the side of the road with a flat and no spare, especially in the middle of BFE.
http://www.goldwingproductreviews.com/StopNGoTirePlugKit.jpg
http://www.goldwingproductreviews.com/StopNGoTirePlugKit.jpg
I've got a tire plug set in my trunk now, but there are many tire mishaps that a plug kit cannot do anything about.
I've got a tire plug set in my trunk now, but there are many tire mishaps that a plug kit cannot do anything about.
I don't know about "many"....maybe if you have a set of Firestones.
I don't know about "many"....maybe if you drive an Explorer.
Fixed.
I don't know about "many"....maybe if you have a set of Firestones.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2541&d=1188955690
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2541&d=1188955690
Meh, I'd bet you could plug that up well enough to get to civilization (assuming you have enough plugs to wad in there.)
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2541&d=1188955690
Wow! ...and a bit of :lol:
No way I would try and plug that and hit highway speeds. There is a reason nobody will plug or patch on the sidewalls.
lupinsea
08-19-2008, 02:24 PM
I've got a tire plug set in my trunk now, but there are many tire mishaps that a plug kit cannot do anything about.
Like a torn valve stem replacement? (http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.Pictures/Photo%20Album%20Pictures/2008-04-30%2001.49.17%20-0700/Image-754CA874169111DD.jpg) :dunno::D
No way I would try and plug that and hit highway speeds. There is a reason nobody will plug or patch on the sidewalls.
There's a difference between fixing it up well enough to get out of a predicament, and fixing it for good. Technically, you aren't suppose to drive on a spare tire at highway speeds either.
clyde
08-19-2008, 03:05 PM
I think the question is more about how likely is it to happen? Is the response (taking up most of the trunk space with a spare) in proportion to the risk? If you're worried about being stranded in BFE, what are you going to do if your ECU decides to take a shit. Or some critical sensor says, "not today," or, or, or...
A plug kit (or god forbid a can of fix a flat, if you dont care about pissing off the tire guy in the next town) and compressor will get you through in most cases. But, I have to ask, what are you using to lift the car? A compact scissors jack? Because, you know, those things fail sometimes, too.
clyde
08-19-2008, 03:07 PM
I don't know about "many"....maybe if you have a set of Firestones.
There's a difference between fixing it up well enough to get out of a predicament, and fixing it for good. Technically, you aren't suppose to drive on a spare tire at highway speeds either.
I was thinking of that when caravaning from PA to Topeka with someone running a donut on a Camaro a couple years ago. Didn't seem to bother him much...
I think the question is more about how likely is it to happen? Is the response (taking up most of the trunk space with a spare) in proportion to the risk? If you're worried about being stranded in BFE, what are you going to do if your ECU decides to take a shit. Or some critical sensor says, "not today," or, or, or...
A plug kit (or god forbid a can of fix a flat, if you dont care about pissing off the tire guy in the next town) and compressor will get you through in most cases. But, I have to ask, what are you using to lift the car? A compact scissors jack? Because, you know, those things fail sometimes, too.
All good points. But the bottom line is this: an ECU failure sucks, and has the same effect as a flat in a car with no spare, but there aren't many cars that come with spare ECUs, so if that happens to me by the side of the road, I won't spend the next (hour/day/week) cursing my stupidity for having bought a fancy ass car that strands me in the middle of nowhere because the frigging engineers back in Germany decided to delete the spare in favor of big mufflers. Perhaps more important, I won't have to explain to my wife/family why it is that our German driving machine does not have a spare (that's a conversation that I don't relish having).
More importantly, I've had any number of incidents where the lack of an easy access to a spare would have been a big problem. I've not (thankfully) had any problems where the ECU shit the bed leaving me stuck by the side of the road.
So.
Irrational? Perhaps. But there it is.
In the scale of probablility of catastrophic failure over the life of the car, a tire failure is probable and an ECU failure is not. Trying to convince someone who wants a spare that they shouldn't worry about it b/c the computer might go bad too isn't going to get much traction.
As for fixing a sidewall gash well enough to get out of a jam . . . the side walls of the tire bow and flex and change shape. It's just not the same as a donut spare or a fix on the tread. I might try it if I were otherwise stuck, but I would rather have a spare.
These are all questions near and dear to my heart when the run flats wear out on the 335. I won't be getting more runflats . . .
clyde
08-19-2008, 03:40 PM
All good points. But the bottom line is this: an ECU failure sucks, and has the same effect as a flat in a car with no spare, but there aren't many cars that come with spare ECUs, so if that happens to me by the side of the road, I won't spend the next (hour/day/week) cursing my stupidity for having bought a fancy ass car that strands me in the middle of nowhere because the frigging engineers back in Germany decided to delete the spare in favor of big mufflers. Perhaps more important, I won't have to explain to my wife/family why it is that our German driving machine does not have a spare (that's a conversation that I don't relish having).
More importantly, I've had any number of incidents where the lack of an easy access to a spare would have been a big problem. I've not (thankfully) had any problems where the ECU shit the bed leaving me stuck by the side of the road.
So.
Irrational? Perhaps. But there it is.
That's different than being concerned about the actual impact of being left on the side of the road.
clyde
08-19-2008, 03:43 PM
In the scale of probablility of catastrophic failure over the life of the car, a tire failure is probable and an ECU failure is not.
Tire failures are common. Catastrophic tire failures are not.
In the scale of probablility of catastrophic failure over the life of the car, a tire failure is probable and an ECU failure is not. Trying to convince someone who wants a spare that they shouldn't worry about it b/c the computer might go bad too isn't going to get much traction.
As for fixing a sidewall gash well enough to get out of a jam . . . the side walls of the tire bow and flex and change shape. It's just not the same as a donut spare or a fix on the tread. I might try it if I were otherwise stuck, but I would rather have a spare.
These are all questions near and dear to my heart when the run flats wear out on the 335. I won't be getting more runflats . . .
The E46 mini spare that Leatherz sells should fit on the 335 with a spacer. Note that I say "should," as I have thus far been too lazy to actually test this theory.
That's different than being concerned about the actual impact of being left on the side of the road.
Different, but no less valid.
EDIT: Besides, my primary concern is being left on the side of the road, or being stuck in east Bumblefuck where no one has heard of a "BMW" and the nearest thing they have to an 18" wheel is on the combine out back.
I have a plug kit and a goo-shooting compressor for day-to-day insurance, and since I bought summer wheels/tires, I just pack one of my RFT winter wheels in the boot when I go on a long road trip. If you get all-season RFTs on whatever it is you get, you could follow that same pattern. Doesn't seem all that complicated, and it's good enough. IMO, anyway. :dunno:
I have a plug kit and a goo-shooting compressor for day-to-day insurance, and since I bought summer wheels/tires, I just pack one of my RFT winter wheels in the boot when I go on a long road trip. If you get all-season RFTs on whatever it is you get, you could follow that same pattern. Doesn't seem all that complicated, and it's good enough. IMO, anyway. :dunno:
Day to day doesn't bother me--I can have the car towed home, where I have wheels and tires galore. Long trips are my concern, and putting a full size wheel in the trunk along with our luggage and the kid's stuff is just not possible (of course, even with a mini spare you have to keep in mind that in the event of a flat the full size wheel has to go somewhere, but there's a difference between what's tolerable in an emergency and what's tolerable in other circumstances).
lemming
08-19-2008, 03:59 PM
I have a plug kit and a goo-shooting compressor for day-to-day insurance, and since I bought summer wheels/tires, I just pack one of my RFT winter wheels in the boot when I go on a long road trip. If you get all-season RFTs on whatever it is you get, you could follow that same pattern. Doesn't seem all that complicated, and it's good enough. IMO, anyway. :dunno:
i'd love to know how else you fit stuff in the car, though, Ponderosa.
:D
LOL I don't have a choice-it's the only way I can afford to own these BMW's!
Oh so THAT's what it's going to take to get your ass south of the TN line and pay a visit...hmmm....I always have been partial to some P-Cars.....
LMAO... you're the homebody. Whatever happened to coming up and running the dragon for a weekend? As for traveling to the deep south, as far as I will go is ATL or HHI. Anything further and the banjoes begin to play.
i'd love to know how else you fit stuff in the car, though, Ponderosa.
:D
You mean how I fit other stuff in there?
Easy. I pack light. :lol:
There's a new "solution" out for the e90. Someone tested an e60 spare on the 'fest and it seems to work. :dunno: Cheaper than leatherz and no nasty spacer/lug set.
Josh (PA)
08-20-2008, 09:31 AM
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304676
:eeps:
That's a sexy car. I like it in white, blue and red.
I don't really like it in white, and I don't like the interior either. Silver on black (yeah, I know) for me I think.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=304676
:eeps:
Seems to be a good deal. It would look better with black leather.
I don't really like it in white, and I don't like the interior either. Silver on black (yeah, I know) for me I think.
Well, I don't like any E90/92 interior.
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