Is this a dumb idea (3rd vehicle)?

[ff]

What do y'all think of a CPO'ed X5 as a 3rd vehicle? I'm browsing the CPO site, and seeing some 2004 examples with ~50K miles, right at around $26K. Subtract several grand because SUV's aren't selling right now, and it could probably be a pretty nice setup for right around $20K.

Towing capacity for the 3.0 is 6000 pounds, which would be more than plenty to haul my S2000 to MN. And it's rated at 21 MPG HWY. Anyone know how good the X5 is at meeting/beating the HWY estimates?

I don't know, just tossing around some ideas as I think about the alternative of driving the S2000 that entire distance (um, no thanks). And needing something for next winter anyhow.

Then there's the V8 4Runner...

[ZBB]

the only thing you may want to keep in mind is the CPO warranties are for a total of 6 years from the original in-service date (or 100k miles). The '04s would expire anytime from late 2009 to summer of 2010 -- so it might be worth finding an '05 with similar mileage.

Don't have any highway mileage experience in an X5, but our X3 3.0 gets between 22-24 on the highway (and 17-19 in town)... the X5 is probably a bit heavier -- so 21 probably makes sense.

[Sharp11]

One alternative for driving the S2k to MN is to have it shipped - that's much less than the cost of an X5.

OTOH, I spent an afternoon driving an 06 X5 3.0 - I averaged 18 mpg and was quite taken with the ride/handling and steering for such a large and heavy vehicle.

I'd stay away from the v8 models, however, as reliability hasn't been so good.

Ed

[Rob]

I am sure it will be more fun to drive then the 4Runner, but it might not deal with the snow as well. I suppose that choice would depend on what you expect to do with it the most. I would pick the X5 over the 4 Runner for on road use any day.

How many days does it snow where you are going? If it dumps a ton once a week, you get 6 days of clear roads and one day of needing the snow capacity every week. If it's the other way around . . .

[ff]

the only thing you may want to keep in mind is the CPO warranties are for a total of 6 years from the original in-service date (or 100k miles). The '04s would expire anytime from late 2009 to summer of 2010 -- so it might be worth finding an '05 with similar mileage.
That's right... I will not own a BMW out of warranty, so the lower mileage/newer models would be a requirement.

One alternative for driving the S2k to MN is to have it shipped - that's much less than the cost of an X5.
The need for a 3rd vehicle this winter (which arrives sooner in MN than most other states) is what's firing these thoughts off in my mind. If I can snag a killer deal on something now, use it to tow the Honda up north, then the $1500 to ship the car would be saved.

I am sure it will be more fun to drive then the 4Runner, but it might not deal with the snow as well. I suppose that choice would depend on what you expect to do with it the most. I would pick the X5 over the 4 Runner for on road use any day.

How many days does it snow where you are going? If it dumps a ton once a week, you get 6 days of clear roads and one day of needing the snow capacity every week. If it's the other way around . . .
In Jan and Feb, it snows all the time. Not uncommon to have new, significant snow on the ground 3 or 4 times/week. Last winter I spent there, the main highways were plowed and salted before morning rush hour. But the secondary roads would wait until mid-day. And they'd be ice and snow-packed by then.

I would be doing some mild off-roading on occasion (nothing like Lupinsea does), which the 4Runner would be much better at. So there's that.

[ff]

I guess another thing to consider is that the X5 probably requires premium fuel, whereas the 4Runner does not.

[ZBB]

I guess another thing to consider is that the X5 probably requires premium fuel, whereas the 4Runner does not.

May be a wash -- depends on the MPG difference... You're probably talking ~$4.50 per tank of gas higher cost -- and a 2 MPG difference would make premium less expensive over time...

[Plaz]

yes.

[rumatt]

yes

[dan]

yes

[clyde]

If I can snag a killer deal on something now, use it to tow the Honda up north, then the $1500 to ship the car would be saved.

$1500 less the following costs:

Trailer rental: $150 (total guess)
Hitch: $400ish (you will NEED weight distribution, and if you try it without sway control, you're fucking nuts)
Extra gas that you'll burn towing: $135 (based on 15mpg towing vs 21mpg not towing at $4.50/gallon...if it were my money, I'd actually plan at 12mpg for $252 extra in gas)
Extra motel stay along the way: $60

With that, I'd expect towing to cost somewhere in the $800 range.

I also did some weight calculations for you:


X5 curb weight: 4652
Trailer: 1,800 (plus or minus a few hundred)
Hitch: 90
S2K plus straps: 2,900
Driver plus minimal personal effects: 210 (guess)

Capacities:
X5 GVWR: 6,008
GCVWR: 10,850
Towing Capacity: 6,000
Payload (GVWR-curb weight): 1,356

The trailer and S2k combine for a load of about 4,700 pounds. Call tongue weight 611 pounds at 13% of load.

With all of that, you're using up 911 pounds of payload and at a gross combined weight of about 9,652 pounds.

So, to save about $700 on shipping the S2K, you're looking at an absolutely miserable tow through a bunch of mountains in a short wheelbase (111") tow vehicle that basically has no power (just over 200hp and tq) at about 90% of its gross combined rating for probably 3 days. Alone. And in the process, you're putting about 1,600 very, very hard miles onto your "new" vehicle.

If it were me, I'd drive the S2K up there and then buy an X5 up there if I still felt compelled. Shipping the S2K and buying an X5 up there would be my #2 choice.

But, thankfully, you and me are not one in the same. ;)

[lemming]

yes


you 'n ponderosa are more like aty every day.

[Sharp11]

Clyde did the homework for you ff.

I wouldn't buy a vehicle now based on its ability to cover a tow back to MN and serve as a third vehicle.

Buy a third vehicle when you get there - that way the market's open to many more choices - especially those that preclude the need to tow.

Ed

[FC]

Clyde did the homework for you ff.

I wouldn't buy a vehicle now based on its ability to cover a tow back to MN and serve as a third vehicle.

Buy a third vehicle when you get there - that way the market's open to many more choices - especially those that preclude the need to tow.

Ed

:+1

[ff]

Thanks for the homework, clyde. :D

The sole reason for thinking of this as an option isn't to save $1500 on shipping the S2000. It's just another possibility, and to kill two birds with the proverbial single stone. And the more I'm thinking about it, I wouldn't want to be pulling that kind of weight with an X5, whether the tow rating says it's OK, or not. I was also [naively] believing that the trailer would weigh considerably less than 2000 pounds.

The V8 4Runner might be a better option if I continued to entertain the idea. Which I'm really not anymore.

If it were me, I'd drive the S2K up there and then buy an X5 up there if I still felt compelled.
I take it you've never driven one for any significant distance before? :-)

[Plaz]

you 'n ponderosa are more like aty every day.

no

[Sharp11]

no

Repost

[lupinsea]

Not sure what the S2000's are like to drive but I've done PCH in the Miata. . . it's a 1400+ mile drive from Seattle to L.A. Between the drive down, the drive back, and driving some awesome California roads in the L.A. area I put 5000 miles on the Miata in a little under 2 weeks. Seemed fine.



It would seem to make sense to me to drive the S2000 up.


On the other hand, what's the likelyhood of salt damage / rust on used cars where you'll be moving to? Maybe it might make sense to get a 4x4 elsewhere.



However, if you wouldn't need towing capacity and only 4x4/AWD once you get to MN check out the Cherokees. If it's just something you'd drive during really crappy weather then the Cherokees can be had for dirt cheap. Towing capacity is only 5000 lb., though, so they wouldn't be good for the S2000.

[Biggins]

However, if you wouldn't need towing capacity and only 4x4/AWD once you get to MN check out the Cherokees. If it's just something you'd drive during really crappy weather then the Cherokees can be had for dirt cheap. Towing capacity is only 5000 lb., though, so they wouldn't be good for the S2000.
I hate to do an off topic thread-jack, but can/do regular Cherokees take regular grade gasoline? I know my buddy puts the cheapest gas in his Grand Cherokee, but he's not a car guy and just goes with what's cheapest.

[equ]

I'd recommend a 330xi any day over an X5. ;)

[ff]

Not sure what the S2000's are like to drive but I've done PCH in the Miata. . . it's a 1400+ mile drive from Seattle to L.A. Between the drive down, the drive back, and driving some awesome California roads in the L.A. area I put 5000 miles on the Miata in a little under 2 weeks. Seemed fine.

The problem with the S2000 on long drives is the constant drone of 4000 RPM. Not so much from the engine, but from the exhaust. Having the thin convertible top doesn't help much there. I suppose that I could stuff the area behind the seats with blankets, or something. That would help a bit. As would a set of ear plugs.

[clyde]

The problem with the S2000 on long drives is the constant drone of 4000 RPM. Not so much from the engine, but from the exhaust. Having the thin convertible top doesn't help much there. I suppose that I could stuff the area behind the seats with blankets, or something. That would help a bit. As would a set of ear plugs.
I haven't driven a S2K over an extended distance like that. I have driven a 1969 Corvette roadster with sidepipes cross country in mid-winter. There was also the completely loaded RX-8 with race exhaust that I round tripped DC-Topeka twice. And the 1987 Corvette that I put 10,000 miles on in a month (about 9,000 of them with the top off). Shall I keep going?

If you think a box stock S2K would make for a tough 1,600 mile drive, well, I think I'm going to have to ask you to turn in your carmudgeons membership crabs. Sorry.

[ff]

I have driven a 1969 Corvette roadster with sidepipes cross country in mid-winter. There was also the completely loaded RX-8 with race exhaust that I round tripped DC-Topeka twice. And the 1987 Corvette that I put 10,000 miles on in a month (about 9,000 of them with the top off). Shall I keep going?

And I'm sure you enjoyed every second of it. :)

[clyde]

That wasn't the question. :p

But none of those trips were bad. I'd do any of them again. Except, maybe, the ones in the Buicks. Those were the only ones that were uncomfortable or painful.

[rumatt]

your carmudgeons membership crabs

My crabs have something to do with my carmudgeons membership?

[Sharp11]

If you think a box stock S2K would make for a tough 1,600 mile drive, well, I think I'm going to have to ask you to turn in your carmudgeons membership crabs. Sorry.

.......ff's complaining about stuff like this and he's only in his 20's :eeps:

They just don't make young people like they used to :lol:
Ed

[BahnBaum]

Back in the day, I would have walked to MN.

Alex

[ff]

.......ff's complaining about stuff like this and he's only in his 20's :eeps:

They just don't make young people like they used to :lol:
Ed
37 yrs old, actually.

I can handle the trip. But given the choice, I'd sooner forgo the droning revs, tight driver's seat, and firm ride for 1600 miles.

Back in the day, I would have have walked to MN.
...carrying 16 bags (plastic) of groceries. :D

[lemming]

37 yrs old, actually.

I can handle the trip. But given the choice, I'd sooner forgo the droning revs, tight driver's seat, and firm ride for 1600 miles.


...carrying 16 bags (plastic) of groceries. :D

if you go more slowly, you won't be at 4000rpms.

:dunno:

ooh.

i just thought of something to spend your money on instead of a tow vehicle: a new rear end with lower gearing.

[John V]

Towing an S2000 on the typical rental trailer with a 3.0L X5 over 1600 miles = :lol:

Drive the S2000. Wear earplugs.

[FC]

Not sure what the S2000's are like to drive but I've done PCH in the Miata. . . it's a 1400+ mile drive from Seattle to L.A. Between the drive down, the drive back, and driving some awesome California roads in the L.A. area I put 5000 miles on the Miata in a little under 2 weeks. Seemed fine.



It would seem to make sense to me to drive the S2000 up.


On the other hand, what's the likelyhood of salt damage / rust on used cars where you'll be moving to? Maybe it might make sense to get a 4x4 elsewhere.



However, if you wouldn't need towing capacity and only 4x4/AWD once you get to MN check out the Cherokees. If it's just something you'd drive during really crappy weather then the Cherokees can be had for dirt cheap. Towing capacity is only 5000 lb., though, so they wouldn't be good for the S2000.

To be fair, the PCH in a Miata is not the S2K FL-to-MN.

I used to think used Cherokees were a great deal, but let me tell you, nice examples command silly prices. I swear they went up in the last year. Given the current market value my brother's car went up $1K in the last year, easy.

[clyde]

To be fair, the PCH in a Miata is not the S2K FL-to-MN.

It certainly isn't. S2K FL-MN would be a relaxing stroll compared to a neverending sprint PCH Maita.

[Plaz]

But given the choice, I'd sooner forgo the droning revs, tight driver's seat, and firm ride for 1600 miles.

:ban:

[lupinsea]

It certainly isn't. S2K FL-MN would be a relaxing stroll compared to a neverending sprint PCH Maita.

:D

There were more than a few sections of PCH where I had the engine humming along at 5000-7000 RPM for nearly an hour rowing between 2 and 3rd the whole time. . . maybe 4th. Oddly, my mpg would really drop down to 17.4 mpg in those sections. :eeps:

PCH is gooooooood.






So, um Cherokees:

Don't get a nice one if you just need a beater. . . get a beater. :) Just make sure the drivetrain is in good shape, the cosmetic stuff won't affect the vehicle. Guy in our club buys and fixes up Cherokees for resale, swapping parts to put together a good running rig, body panels might not color match but he sells them for ~$1500-$2000 for a rig with 150k on the clock. With proper care and feeding they should last to 250-300k.

And they do take cheap gas. No problem there.

IIRC, the Jeep 4.0L also requires no timing adjustment, valve adjustment, nor timing change replacement.

[ff]

Is that 4.0 pretty reliable? That's a straight-six, right?

[hfh330i]

Is that 4.0 pretty reliable? That's a straight-six, right?

I can answer the second question: Yes.

[hfh330i]

I wouldn't tow a jetski w/ an X5.

[FC]

My brother's '00 Cherokee is a nice cherokee (still far from mint), but that is still not a nice car (it's still essentially a 25y.o. design). I have my limits of what I'm willing to tolerate. I don't want a rusty, 10+ y.o. truck with 180K miles.

And from what I saw last time I checked, which again, seems very different from a year ago, prices have climbed. maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

Not that I would not consider one if my budget was very low, but given the surprisignly robust market, it is not a great a deal as it was not that long ago.

[lemming]

My brother's '00 Cherokee is a nice cherokee (still far from mint), but that is still not a nice car (it's still essentially a 25y.o. design). I have my limits of what I'm willing to tolerate. I don't want a rusty, 10+ y.o. truck with 180K miles.

And from what I saw last time I checked, which again, seems very different from a year ago, prices have climbed. maybe it's a regional thing, I dunno.

Not that I would not consider one if my budget was very low, but given the surprisignly robust market, it is not a great a deal as it was not that long ago.

straight six is one of the most reliable engines out there.......i'll just happily remind the audience that the clutch uses a slave and master cylinder and it's a b*tch to replace when it goes.........and the rest of the vehicle isn't all that reliable, actually. trash-lok differential goes after about 40k miles and needs to be re-geared. selec=trac or command=trac electronics are often iffy at best to engage when NEW....can't imagine used.

i could probably come up with a bunch of other issues i encountered with mine, but you get the point.

[equ]

To be fair, the PCH in a Miata is not the S2K FL-to-MN.

I used to think used Cherokees were a great deal, but let me tell you, nice examples command silly prices. I swear they went up in the last year. Given the current market value my brother's car went up $1K in the last year, easy.

A friend of mine moved from NYC to MN. He rode his Harley (he's canadian so I excuse him for the affectation). I signed him out to help get his Ironbutt certification for which you need 1000 miles in 24 hours.

I guess my point is that if the seats are comfortable in the s2k, and to me they seemed to be quite good, why not, FF? Or better ship it with your stuff. Pack the family in the civic & go. Or take both cars and take turns switching around.

[ff]

Or take both cars and take turns switching around.
Exactly what I'm thinking, too. We already plan to break the trip up into smaller [than normal] chunks, and take 4 or even 5 days to get there. Then I can pretend that it's a vacation (yippie! ;) ). If we switch off once each day, that should make it completely manageable.

I have my limits of what I'm willing to tolerate. I don't want a rusty, 10+ y.o. truck with 180K miles.
Ditto. It has to be something in decent condition. And it has to be reliable enough that I won't be worrying about which stoplight it's going to stall at.