964?

[equ]

Back in 04 when I sold my 996, I was tempted to get into one of these. Last of the frogs, 993 overvalued. I talked a friend into getting one, he backed out at the last moment and got an r32 (he has a very bad back). I told him they were undervalued...

I did a two-minute check last night, from what I can see they've held/gone up since 04. My heart sank, it's just like missing out on your own good trading idea.

How are they to drive/own? Has any one of you had one? I sat in one yesterday, the seat was very good, much better than the 996. They are also so cute.

[equ]

I know back from 04 that the 1993 is the best one to get, the 89-90's have a few issues...

[JST]

Back in 04 when I sold my 996, I was tempted to get into one of these. Last of the frogs, 993 overvalued. I talked a friend into getting one, he backed out at the last moment and got an r32 (he has a very bad back). I told him they were undervalued...

I did a two-minute check last night, from what I can see they've held/gone up since 04. My heart sank, it's just like missing out on your own good trading idea.

How are they to drive/own? Has any one of you had one? I sat in one yesterday, the seat was very good, much better than the 996. They are also so cute.

I came close to buying one (actually two different ones) last year, but chickened out.

IMO, they are the best "old" 911 for the reasons you suggest. Like the 3.2s, I think that they have reached the bottom of their depreciation (3.2s have held steady values for at least the past 15 years, by my count). By modern standards they aren't very fast and have very peaky power delivery. Fine for a third or fourth car, but not something I'd give up the Cayman for.

My research suggests that there are a few known issues that you should look for. Can't remember all the details, but there is a distributor vent kit that needs to be installed, or else the little belt inside the distributor can pack it in, leading to bad problems. Also, the early cars didn't have head gaskets and developed leaks as a result. Later cars, IIRC, had head gaskets. The early cars also wouldn't accept 17" wheels without modification.

The 964 C4 had a very complex AWD system and a high pressure braking system, both of which can lead to more expensive repair/maintenance. The car to get is probably a later C2 coupe.

[equ]

Some good thoughts, JST...

That's the clincher - could I give up the Cayman for one? They don't seem to be very light so the driving experience could be compromised. I really like it much better than the 993 (not having driven either). The front of the 993 is not as cute and the 993 interior is as dated as the 964 (so I think that interior better matches the classic exterior).

I knew about the distributor vents (for which there's a kit) and the gaskets on the early ones but was wondering about the c4 (as I've never driven either c2 or c4 air-cooled, ever). I wasn't sure if the front weight & pull helped on feel (I know a friend liked to keep his tank full on an early c2 for better driving :lol: ) or just made it worse. So that's enough info that I'll stay away from the c4's. I certainly preferred the 996c2 to the 996c4. Part of me is thinking about a cab though (:eek: oh, the horror... )

To be honest, as awesome as the CS is, I feel like 90-95% of the time, I'm not even scratching the surface of its capabilities. Plus there's the s4 that takes some of its fire - as my flawed butt dyno can swear that the s4 is faster in a straightline...:eek:

[JST]

Some good thoughts, JST...

That's the clincher - could I give up the Cayman for one? They don't seem to be very light so the driving experience could be compromised. I really like it much better than the 993 (not having driven either). The front of the 993 is not as cute and the 993 interior is as dated as the 964 (so I think that interior better matches the classic exterior).

I knew about the distributor vents (for which there's a kit) and the gaskets on the early ones but was wondering about the c4 (as I've never driven either c2 or c4 air-cooled, ever). I wasn't sure if the front weight & pull helped on feel (I know a friend liked to keep his tank full on an early c2 for better driving :lol: ) or just made it worse. So that's enough info that I'll stay away from the c4's. I certainly preferred the 996c2 to the 996c4. Part of me is thinking about a cab though (:eek: oh, the horror... )

To be honest, as awesome as the CS is, I feel like 90-95% of the time, I'm not even scratching the surface of its capabilities. Plus there's the s4 that takes some of its fire - as my flawed butt dyno can swear that the s4 is faster in a straightline...:eek:

I bet it is. The question you have to ask yourself is this: can you live with a "sports car" that is not just a little but a lot slower than your daily driver, especially in the low-end torque area? I don't think I can, which is one of the reasons I chickened out when looking at 964s. I mean, they're fun, but they make a lot more noise than power.

[rumatt]

That's the clincher - could I give up the Cayman for one?

Not that I've driven either, so this is a completely uneducated opinion..

..but I can't see giving up a Cayman S for a 964.

[FC]

Not that I've driven either, so this is a completely uneducated opinion..

..but I can't see giving up a Cayman S for a 964.

:+1

And I've drive the Cayman S. Adding one as your weekend project? Sure. REPLACING the Cayman with one? That's just silly.;)

[JST]

:+1

And I've drive the Cayman S. Adding one as your weekend project? Sure. REPLACING the Cayman with one? That's just silly.;)

Well, I can see the logic. A 964 will depreciate very little, if at all, in a couple of years. A Cayman is likely to shed 20K worth of value in the same period. Is a Cayman worth 20K when you could (effectively) spend $0 to drive a 964? That's a tougher call.

Of course, maintenance and so forth will be more on the 964, but unless the engine goes it's not likely to cost anywhere near as much as the Cayman to run.

OTOH, some of that depreciation has already hit the Cayman, so the price differential is probably not that great. The most "intelligent" thing to do is probably keep the Cayman for 10-12 years, so that the running costs level out.

[zach]

My soon-to-be father-in-law (that is a lot of hyphens) has a 1987 or 88 911. It has 20k miles on it, and he had the engine pulled and restored last year.

It is neat to drive, but feels pretty fragile. That said, I was extra careful for obvious reasons.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, it might be older. It says "Carrera SC" on the back. Anyone know anything about them?

[blee]

Generally speaking, and especially (especially generally?) for sporty cars, newer generations are faster, more nimble, and thus more capable than their forebears. It's subjective as to whether they're also more fun. Consider all of the hullabaloo surrounding the three currently extant variants of the M3.

[rumatt]

It says "Carrera SC" on the back. Anyone know anything about them?

911 SC (1978–1983)

[JST]

My soon-to-be father-in-law (that is a lot of hyphens) has a 1987 or 88 911. It has 20k miles on it, and he had the engine pulled and restored last year.

It is neat to drive, but feels pretty fragile. That said, I was extra careful for obvious reasons.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, it might be older. It says "Carrera SC" on the back. Anyone know anything about them?

Carrera SC? Or 911 SC? The "SC" designation pre-dated the Carrera designation. I've never heard of a car that uses both descriptors, though my knowledge of 911 minutiae is limited. IIRC, the "SC" cars ran from '78 through 1983, and in 1984 the Carrera was introduced.

[zach]

Carrera SC? Or 911 SC? The "SC" designation pre-dated the Carrera designation. I've never heard of a car that uses both descriptors, though my knowledge of 911 minutiae is limited. IIRC, the "SC" cars ran from '78 through 1983, and in 1984 the Carrera was introduced.

I do not remember. I'll have to take a look the next time I'm there.

[rumatt]

I do not remember. I'll have to take a look the next time I'm there.

Are you sure it doesn't say "Cayman S"?

:p

[zach]

Are you sure it doesn't say "Cayman S"?

:p

Positive.

[lemming]

the major complaint about the 993 when it came out is that it wasn't a phenomenal leap forward from the 964 --that written, it was a huge improvement in notable areas:

1. the rear suspension was a huge improvement
2. the 993 M64 engine didn't need valve adjustments (manual) every 10k miles (super pricey).
3. better brakes
4. arguably better interior.
5. arguably the most classis aircooled shape

i'd personally not advise anyone to get a 964 unless it was the RS America (a real one --a car that i've driven, too). might as well get a 993. seriously.

or go back further and get a carrera RS (circa 1973).

[clyde]

5. arguably the most classis aircooled shape


Go ahead and try to make that argument.

[lemming]

Go ahead and try to make that argument.

"arguably".

i do. all of the time. but styling is so subjective, how can one win/lose the argument?

[equ]

The 993 certainly does not have the most "classic" shape. That's for the 964, the SC and the older ones. What I really don't like about the 993 are its beady little eyes, as opposed to the cute front of the older ones...