01-14-2019, 05:13 PM | #11 |
Relic
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This is a good place to have the discussion -- considering that there are 5 of us who have an EV (with a couple of us on our 2nd or 3rd one…)
- Most charging will be at home. In my case, ~90% of my EV mileage has been charged at home. Nearly all the remaining was during road trips, and nearly all of that on L3 chargers. I charge occasionally at freebie chargers around town, but that easily could have been at home. I've only had to pay for charging once after forgetting to charge one night and not having enough juice to make it home (so I hit a paid L3 charger on my way home). - For most people, 150 mile range will be sufficient for commuter and weekend needs. Just charge back up overnight. But it looks like all the recent announcements are for minimum range of ~250 miles. That's great. City dwellers will be the hardest group to provide coverage -- but some thoughts: - Many of them already don't own cars and just rent if they need one. Car sharing and ride sharing works well for them. I work with some people that no longer have a car and just take Uber/Lyft when they need a ride (and they walk to work). - Some cities are already putting charging in on the street -- just like parking meters. These are all over Paris for example. There's even an EV-only car sharing service in Paris that parks that cars on the street at dedicated chargers. - Its not a surprise that the European automakers are focused on 800V L3 DC, putting out 400kW. Once the batteries can take the full power of these chargers, it means doing an 80% charge in <10 min. That's 3-4x faster than Tesla's current Superchargers. - Tesla has been putting in "Urban Superchargers" over the last 18 months. These are a bit slower (72kW max), but are not shared -- so you get the max avail from the start (the traditional 120kW Superchargers have 2 outlets share each charging stack -- so the first car to arrive gets max power, and the 2nd car gets the remainder, min 10kW and ramps up as the other ramps down). - As for the grid requirements of L3 charging, many L3 sites have battery packs to pull juice off the grid evenly, but discharge the batteries faster when needed. Tesla has many superchargers with this, and there are reports of other L3 sites that already do this. VAG was in the news recently with a "mobile" L3 charger that includes a battery pack and the charger -- it could be put on site and used immediately with no grid connection (at least until the battery drains…)
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01-14-2019, 05:19 PM | #12 | |
Western Anomaly
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Factually, all of this is intuitive. I was just trying to picture this as I was walking in Manhattan. You’d need to tax the hell out of cars to also reduce the sheer numbers. Hope for autonomous to fill some of that. Can the grid in old cities on the east coast handle these needs?
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01-14-2019, 06:14 PM | #13 | |
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ICE cars won't go away overnight, but I think we'll look back at some point and be impressed with how quickly (relatively) the switch happened. |
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01-14-2019, 07:17 PM | #14 |
Mugwump
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01-14-2019, 07:37 PM | #15 |
Relic
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Depends. I’ve started seeing news articles about converting classics to electric... one of those was in the mainstream press, not something like CleanTechnica...
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01-14-2019, 08:11 PM | #16 | |
Western Anomaly
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Don’t misread me. I’m getting a 300mi EV sometime soon. I won’t give up any ICE vehicles though. I was just wondering how we think this evolves. I just wonder how EVs reach people who live in urban areas. It will be fun to see. But in Boston or Manhattan I’m just not seeing it.
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01-14-2019, 08:53 PM | #17 |
Confused
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I've been able to have several meetings with representatives from Mercedes USA due to my work with electric utility companies. The topic of the meetings was that they are considering several "innovative" ideas as part of their new electric vehicle rollout.
One idea that struck me was along the lines of individual homeowners making their chargers available for use by others. So for a fee, a person could stop at someones house, front yard, etc. and give their car a charge from a privately owned charger. This of course means that the chargers would have to be externally accessible. But is sounded like an idea that Mercedes was considering as part of their overall EQ vehicle deployment over the next 5-10 years. Maybe they would be Mercedes branded chargers, it wasn't clear. But it seems like companies are seriously considering many different alternatives to help push electric cars more into the mainstream and make charging more convenient. When I built my house 2 years ago I had a vehicle charger installed inside my garage. I don't yet own an electric vehicle, but I figured that I would eventually and wanted to be prepared. So I guess Mercedes won't be able to leverage my charger with their grand schemes. But it's an intriguing idea, nevertheless. - Greg |
01-14-2019, 08:55 PM | #18 |
Relic
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Greg -
That idea is already in place... go check out PlugShare and you can filter to chargers that are shared. I’ve never used one though... don’t even have them on in the filters on PlugShare...
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01-14-2019, 09:06 PM | #19 | |
Confused
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That would be a handy thing to have. I live in a rural area, so there aren't many options near me besides a Tesla SuperCharger site about 20 miles up the highway. I just found it interesting that the auto manufacturers were thinking about mimicking Tesla's model of a network of chargers, but perhaps making them less proprietary. And if there's financial incentive for homeowners to share their chargers, maybe that helps the push for more EVs. I'm probably not too far away from getting another spare car and it will be electric. I can charge for free at my office, and with the charger already installed in my garage, I should be ready to go. I'll admit that I already have the ChargePoint swipe card in my wallet ready to use at a charger, but I just don't have the car yet. Haha! |
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01-15-2019, 12:39 AM | #20 | |
Chief title editor
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1) The size of the petroleum powered vehicle market will be artificially capped at a fraction of its full potential size until the petroleum transport/delivery system is adequate. 2) Using the wealthy and lucky few that can a) purchase a new petroleum powered vehicle;as a representative sample of the entire population set is ill-advised 3) That everyone (consumer, manufacturer, and government) would be best off if all manufacturers adopted standards for petroleum blends to power their vehicles and how to move petroleum from the delivery system into the vehicles. I'm not saying don't do it. (OTOH, if steam power beat out petroleum 120 years ago, perhaps the climate change crisis would not be upon us today.)
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OH NOES!!!!!1 MY CAR HAS T3H UND3R5T33R5555!!!!!!1oneone!!!!11 Team WTF?! What are you gonna do? |
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