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Old 01-30-2014, 01:18 PM   #51
John V
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So you're perfectly comfortable comparing a 911S against a Ferrari 456? Given your argument, because the 456 is largely hand-built it's very expensive, but that's just how they chose to do things.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:20 PM   #52
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The one they can afford.
agreed.

and i'd drive home in a better pre-owned car than a new car (that depreciates more) and is less satisfying. i don't have the buffet mentality. i'd rather have a smaller serving and pay the same amount of money if the food tastes better.

completely subjective.

but from my own experience, it's really not a joy, to drive a C6. it's numb as hell and it's a gigantically wide car with an ill-damped suspension.

do i suppose that the C7 is going to be better, now that it's gained 200lbs? hmmm.....
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:22 PM   #53
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So you're perfectly comfortable comparing a 911S against a Ferrari 456? Given your argument, because the 456 is largely hand-built it's very expensive, but that's just how they chose to do things.
sure.

i'm comfortable with that.

i'd take a porsche over any mclaren or ferrari, if only because of the superior dealer network and greater number of knowledgeable mechanics.

at this level of car, which is vastly removed from a camry, anything subjective can be the decision maker and one could not fault anyone else for how they make their decision.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:23 PM   #54
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agreed.

and i'd drive home in a better pre-owned car than a new car (that depreciates more) and is less satisfying. i don't have the buffet mentality. i'd rather have a smaller serving and pay the same amount of money if the food tastes better.

completely subjective.

but from my own experience, it's really not a joy, to drive a C6. it's numb as hell and it's a gigantically wide car with an ill-damped suspension.

do i suppose that the C7 is going to be better, now that it's gained 200lbs? hmmm.....
The weight gain is a bummer, but Magna-ride is supposed to be the cat's meow.

You're talking about a 5+ year old used 911 at the $60k price point. That's hard to swallow IMO vs a new car w/warranty.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:28 PM   #55
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The weight gain is a bummer, but Magna-ride is supposed to be the cat's meow.

You're talking about a 5+ year old used 911 at the $60k price point. That's hard to swallow IMO vs a new car w/warranty.
i'd be completely open to test driving the C7. i'm keen to hone in on the comments from Chris Harris, to see if the chassis is as stiff as any reference car and how it handles rebound and damping.

you'll forgive me if i'm skeptical about steering feel, though.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:29 PM   #56
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sure.

i'm comfortable with that.

i'd take a porsche over any mclaren or ferrari, if only because of the superior dealer network and greater number of knowledgeable mechanics.

at this level of car, which is vastly removed from a camry, anything subjective can be the decision maker and one could not fault anyone else for how they make their decision.
Yeah- I never get the whole debate on car forums about what constitutes a "valid comparison" for an individual buyer. If somenoe is comparing 2 cars, then its valid. On bimmerfest, for example, someone is comparing a 535d to a Panamera. Kind of strange given the big price spread, etc. And of course people jump on him that his comparison "isn't valid". Well, if its valid for him then its valid. Of course, everyone told him "well if you can afford a panamera, get a panamera" (except for the most die-hard fanboys)

Personally, I find it most interesting to read about comparisons at a particular price point. Because I tend to think "what can I get for this amount of money". Regardless of whether the cars are apples/oranges in other ways. A base Cayman vs a Stingray would be interesting to me for example. There was another comparison test floating around of a Fiesta ST vs an e46 M3...that's also interesting even if its "not valid".

More often than not, the car that costs more ends up being the "better car" which makes comparisons of non price matched cars kind of boring unless its a true underdog story. New car leasing muddies the waters further...An Audi S4 might end up costing as much to lease as a BMW 550 for example. SO there's lots of reasons to compare cars that seem apples and oranges.

That being said even price matched comparisons of new/used cars don't tell the whole story if you omit ownership costs. A Ferrari 456 will cost you a lot more to maintain for example than a new 911S.

Last edited by robg; 01-30-2014 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:35 PM   #57
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Personally, I find it most interesting to read about comparisons at a particular price point.
Exactly.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:20 PM   #58
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Personally, I find it most interesting to read about comparisons at a particular price point. Because I tend to think "what can I get for this amount of money".
Exactly.

Further, I'm much more interested in comparison of cars I have a chance of affording too. Ferrari, Porsche? Not any where close to being affordable in my world.

Which is why, uh, I'm much more interested in:

Miata
BRZ / FR-S
WRX
FoST
FiST
Mazdaspeed3
GTI
Mustang (what the hell, interested in the new one)
etc.

Besides being within the realm of possibility for me, I also think it's more challenging to see how good of a sports / sporty car an automaker can build and design if they are constrained by a particular pricepoint.

$90k, $250k car, yeah, there is more "budget" in that price for nice engines, bespoked suspension, fancy materials and finishs, and tuning time.

$20-25k car? Much tougher it seems to me as there are going to be compromises all over the place because they need to sell the car at a lower price point.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:25 PM   #59
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Exactly.

Further, I'm much more interested in comparison of cars I have a chance of affording too. Ferrari, Porsche? Not any where close to being affordable in my world.

Which is why, uh, I'm much more interested in:

Miata
BRZ / FR-S
WRX
FoST
FiST
Mazdaspeed3
GTI
Mustang (what the hell, interested in the new one)
etc.

Besides being within the realm of possibility for me, I also think it's more challenging to see how good of a sports / sporty car an automaker can build and design if they are constrained by a particular pricepoint.

$90k, $250k car, yeah, there is more "budget" in that price for nice engines, bespoked suspension, fancy materials and finishs, and tuning time.

$20-25k car? Much tougher it seems to me as there are going to be compromises all over the place because they need to sell the car at a lower price point.
to be fair, GM threw the gauntlet down by saying that they used the 911 continuously as a benchmark throughout C7 testing --so, whatever qualms we have about the money, they started the discussion long before anyone else did.

for the cars you listed, i'd be curious as to your feedback as well as that in print.
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Old 01-30-2014, 02:30 PM   #60
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to be fair, GM threw the gauntlet down by saying that they used the 911 continuously as a benchmark throughout C7 testing --so, whatever qualms we have about the money, they started the discussion long before anyone else did.

for the cars you listed, i'd be curious as to your feedback as well as that in print.
I finally got around to watching that e46 vs. FiST youtube video, make me want to test drive a FiST.
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