carmudgeons.com  

Go Back   carmudgeons.com > Automotive Forums > Car Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2018, 09:48 PM   #11
clyde
Chief title editor
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 23,055
Truecar is worthwhile as a source, but they're far from a final word. They exist to generate sales leads and that's how they make their money. Many of the places with price info get theirs from Truecar these days (not sure if USAA is one of them).

I suspect there's at least one good Mazda or Mazda 3 forum with reasonable recent pricing info out there and you can get all the info you need from it in 15 minutes or less. Another 15-30 minutes browsing inventory on cargurus.com (seriously, check cargurus.com out), mazdausa.com and local dealer sites should give you an idea of what incentives are available (and which ones you may qualify for).

After that, you ought to have a pretty good idea what a fair price is. Not a grind it out price, but a fair price.

I would suggest going the online route and do the bulk of your negotiating by email starting with the online quote request form on specific cars at a variety of dealers. The initial quote request is BS, but when they contact you in repsonse, you tell them what you want, you want to buy soon (that day if the hour makes it possible), and be demandingly firm that they break their quote out for car price, incentives, rebates, doc fees and state fees (taxes, title, reg, etc).

In the offer- counter-offer process, stay below your target price initially and let them come to you. If your target is reasonable and in the "fair price" range, it shouldn't take more than a handful of emails. Then, pick up the phone.

OTOH, when you know the price you're looking for, you can just walk in somewhere, but you're betting your time that it will work out at that dealer at that time. And it can. But if it doesn't, you've wasted a lot of time.

It sounds so much more complicated than it is and it's not a grind. You just need to know what you want to pay. Don't play the "out the door" game. Negotiate the price of the car separate of incentives, rebates, fees, taxes, and everything else. All that stuff will be what they're going to be. The price of the car is the about the only thing that can vary. Know what the other things are and use them in your mental calculations, but keep them out of the negotiation process.

The one exception is if there is any manufacturer to dealer incentives that the dealer chooses whether to use to close your sale. GM (or just Chevy?) had up to $4k "flex cash" available at the time I bought. The manufacturer was making $XXX available to each dealer for the month. Up to $4k could be used on any one vehicle, but once the full $XXX was used, they had no more for any vehicles for the rest of the month. Some dealers applied a little to each car, some put a lot on their hard to sell cars and would not put anything on their fast movers. When I was negotiating, some offered to use up to $3k, most $2k or less. The one I bought from used all $4k.

Remember that dealers and manufacturers built the system to get you to part with as much money possible. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find a fair and reasonable price. Decent dealers will get you to that price pretty quickly...you just need to know what it is first.

Good luck!
__________________
OH NOES!!!!!1 MY CAR HAS T3H UND3R5T33R5555!!!!!!1oneone!!!!11

Team WTF?!
What are you gonna do?
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2018, 09:53 PM   #12
lip277
The old cranky SOB....
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: several cars... way too many....
Location: Near Seattle
Posts: 3,997
What about the Costco auto program?
__________________
Kevin


1970 2800CS - - 2001 740iL - - 2006 997.1 - - 2012 Escalade
1968 Mustang GT Convertible - - 2003 Ford F250 PSD - - 1985 728i
lip277 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2018, 10:06 PM   #13
ZBB
Relic
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: A very fast golf cart
Location: The Valley of the Sun
Posts: 11,232
Keep in mind this is the last year of her current gen... you should be able to get well below MSRP just for that alone... The next gen was already shown at LA....
__________________
ZBB
ZBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-28-2018, 10:14 PM   #14
AF
What ev's
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaz View Post
Right, no personal property tax, high sales tax up front.

That being said I didn't know on a common car like that the gap between invoice and msrp was that large.

I guess I should actually prepare instead of going by my gut.

Thanks.
I am surprised as well, you can get over $3,600 off on this car !? ... are they offering incentives ??

I’m like Plaz with these things, just give me a bit off msrp and let me drive away with a new car.

That Mazda 3 is a really cool car, I think you and your family are going to be very happy with it !!

Last edited by AF; 12-29-2018 at 01:01 AM.
AF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 08:11 AM   #15
John V
No more BMWs
 
John V's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 987S, Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8
Location: Glenwood, MD
Posts: 12,439
this thread is relevant to my interests.
John V is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 12:54 PM   #16
Plaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M; '08 MCS; '02 325iT
Location: Churzee
Posts: 17,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
Truecar is worthwhile as a source, but they're far from a final word. They exist to generate sales leads and that's how they make their money. Many of the places with price info get theirs from Truecar these days (not sure if USAA is one of them).

I suspect there's at least one good Mazda or Mazda 3 forum with reasonable recent pricing info out there and you can get all the info you need from it in 15 minutes or less. Another 15-30 minutes browsing inventory on cargurus.com (seriously, check cargurus.com out), mazdausa.com and local dealer sites should give you an idea of what incentives are available (and which ones you may qualify for).

After that, you ought to have a pretty good idea what a fair price is. Not a grind it out price, but a fair price.

I would suggest going the online route and do the bulk of your negotiating by email starting with the online quote request form on specific cars at a variety of dealers. The initial quote request is BS, but when they contact you in repsonse, you tell them what you want, you want to buy soon (that day if the hour makes it possible), and be demandingly firm that they break their quote out for car price, incentives, rebates, doc fees and state fees (taxes, title, reg, etc).

In the offer- counter-offer process, stay below your target price initially and let them come to you. If your target is reasonable and in the "fair price" range, it shouldn't take more than a handful of emails. Then, pick up the phone.

OTOH, when you know the price you're looking for, you can just walk in somewhere, but you're betting your time that it will work out at that dealer at that time. And it can. But if it doesn't, you've wasted a lot of time.

It sounds so much more complicated than it is and it's not a grind. You just need to know what you want to pay. Don't play the "out the door" game. Negotiate the price of the car separate of incentives, rebates, fees, taxes, and everything else. All that stuff will be what they're going to be. The price of the car is the about the only thing that can vary. Know what the other things are and use them in your mental calculations, but keep them out of the negotiation process.

The one exception is if there is any manufacturer to dealer incentives that the dealer chooses whether to use to close your sale. GM (or just Chevy?) had up to $4k "flex cash" available at the time I bought. The manufacturer was making $XXX available to each dealer for the month. Up to $4k could be used on any one vehicle, but once the full $XXX was used, they had no more for any vehicles for the rest of the month. Some dealers applied a little to each car, some put a lot on their hard to sell cars and would not put anything on their fast movers. When I was negotiating, some offered to use up to $3k, most $2k or less. The one I bought from used all $4k.

Remember that dealers and manufacturers built the system to get you to part with as much money possible. It doesn't take a lot of effort to find a fair and reasonable price. Decent dealers will get you to that price pretty quickly...you just need to know what it is first.

Good luck!
Excellent, thank you!
__________________
2011 1M
Plaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 12:56 PM   #17
Plaz
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M; '08 MCS; '02 325iT
Location: Churzee
Posts: 17,346
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc330i View Post
Solid choice for a college car. I had a Mazda GLC in college. A three-door hatchback. It was a super stripper with one side mirror, no air conditioning, no carpeting (just vinyl covering the floor), and no radio! And a stick, of course.

My later Honda Accord EX hatchback felt like a Mercedes by comparison.

Mazdas have come along way since the early 80s.
I think the thing that makes it an especially good choice for a 1st car is that it's severely underpowered.

My first car was a rusted out bug I bought for $50. It lasted about 6 months.
__________________
2011 1M
Plaz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 07:53 PM   #18
wdc330i
dogged
 
wdc330i's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Carmudgeonly Ride: '17 M240i; '17 718 Boxster S; '16 X5 50i MSport
Posts: 6,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by Plaz View Post
I think the thing that makes it an especially good choice for a 1st car is that it's severely underpowered.
Absolutely!
wdc330i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 08:00 PM   #19
Nick M3
Old Fart
 
Nick M3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Bethesda, MD
Posts: 8,820
Quote:
Originally Posted by AF View Post
I am surprised as well, you can get over $3,600 off on this car !? ... are they offering incentives ??

I’m like Plaz with these things, just give me a bit off msrp and let me drive away with a new car.

That Mazda 3 is a really cool car, I think you and your family are going to be very happy with it !!
You guys should hire clyde to negotiate your car purchases for you!
__________________
2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD 4WD LBZ/Allison
2002 BMW M3
1999 323i GTS2
1995 M3 S50B32, S6S420G, 3.91
1990 325is
1989 M3

Hers:
1988 325iX
1996 911 Turbo


Nick M3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2018, 08:03 PM   #20
equ
Alphanumeric
 
equ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 535i, macanurbo
Posts: 7,841
Are you going to close the deal on the 31st, the best day of the year to buy a car?
equ is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums 2003-2008, 'Mudgeon Enterprises - Site hosting by AYN & Associates, LLC