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Old 09-10-2018, 01:53 PM   #2191
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Old 10-01-2018, 03:46 PM   #2192
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Got to sit in a Jaguar iPace today.

Very nicely done. Letís hope other charging networks build out to allow road trips.

Itís an interesting in person in that it is much less SUV-ish. Height-wise, itís closer to a sedan than a crossover. I like it.
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Old 10-01-2018, 05:59 PM   #2193
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Letís hope other charging networks build out to allow road trips.
That is the absolute worst thing that could happen in this arena.
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Old 10-01-2018, 06:02 PM   #2194
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https://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa...-romeo-giulia/

Oops, wrong thread.

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Old 10-01-2018, 11:31 PM   #2195
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That is the absolute worst thing that could happen in this arena.
Why? I talked with the Jaguar Land Rover reps this evening and mentioned that I put over 93k miles on a Model S, including over 20k in road trips. Solving for the road trip problem solves the EV problem. Most charging happens at home, but itís the 10-20% of the time use cases that need to be solved for people to accept them as a daily driver.

Anyway, I asked if they could let me know when I could drive one. Sounds like a couple months before the dealers near me will have any.

They also touted that a DC charge would take 90 mins. I told them that I DC charged over 150 times for my Model S, with an average charging stop of 45 min and they need to do better...
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Old 10-02-2018, 10:33 AM   #2196
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Why? I talked with the Jaguar Land Rover reps this evening and mentioned that I put over 93k miles on a Model S, including over 20k in road trips. Solving for the road trip problem solves the EV problem. Most charging happens at home, but itís the 10-20% of the time use cases that need to be solved for people to accept them as a daily driver.



Anyway, I asked if they could let me know when I could drive one. Sounds like a couple months before the dealers near me will have any.



They also touted that a DC charge would take 90 mins. I told them that I DC charged over 150 times for my Model S, with an average charging stop of 45 min and they need to do better...


In the short run, yes, I agree that Teslaís approach has helped increase acceptance/adoption of EVs. But as EVs become more mainstream I donít think any of us want a scenario where every car company has their own proprietary charging network. Perhaps Porsche and others will do what theyíve started to do in Europe and build out a network of CCS chargers that will work with a variety of EVs

https://electrek.co/2018/07/11/porsc...-station-grid/
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Old 10-02-2018, 11:08 AM   #2197
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speaking of Jags, I saw my first xf sportbrake on the road yesterday. Really sharp looking in person. I so wish Wagons would be more strongly supported in the U.S.

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Old 10-02-2018, 12:47 PM   #2198
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Why?
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I donít think any of us want a scenario where every car company has their own proprietary charging network.
Everyone needs to be on the same standard. At worst, several standards all available in a single place (think leaded/unleaded, octane rating, diesel/gas, etc).
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Old 10-02-2018, 01:22 PM   #2199
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Everyone needs to be on the same standard. At worst, several standards all available in a single place (think leaded/unleaded, octane rating, diesel/gas, etc).
But..why?

I mean, I get that that might be more convenient, but why is it necessary?

There are right now only 3 DC fast charging networks, anyway--SAE Combo, CHAdeMO, and Tesla. The Tesla network is light years beyond the others in terms of build-out, but I suppose in theory you might see a big upswing in SAE Combo cars over the next few years. I guess there's also the Porsche charging standard, which may or may not be compatible with other VAG cars.

But if there are a profusion of landlords willing to allow these facilities to be built (and there are), and you have GPS to tell you where the stations are (and you do), so what if there are a bunch of incompatible standards?
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Old 10-02-2018, 02:23 PM   #2200
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But..why?

I mean, I get that that might be more convenient, but why is it necessary?

There are right now only 3 DC fast charging networks, anyway--SAE Combo, CHAdeMO, and Tesla. The Tesla network is light years beyond the others in terms of build-out, but I suppose in theory you might see a big upswing in SAE Combo cars over the next few years. I guess there's also the Porsche charging standard, which may or may not be compatible with other VAG cars.

But if there are a profusion of landlords willing to allow these facilities to be built (and there are), and you have GPS to tell you where the stations are (and you do), so what if there are a bunch of incompatible standards?
If the context of the argument is that, eventually, plug in EVs will be the norm.

Short term, proprietary charging networks are a needless barrier to entry and a consumer resistance point. The idea that this will not be standardized some day is nearly unthinkable.

It always seems like there's an assumption that everyone will charge their cars at home every night, so charging stations will only be an occasional need, like on road trips. That works for people with dedicated or exclusive parking areas that can be equipped to charge. And that probably covers over 95% of current plug in EV owner use cases. But you all are in a bubble.

Where do people that do not have exclusive parking areas fit in? When, where and how do they charge? Those charging stations are going to be their primary method. They're not going to be willing to drive to the other side of town to spend an hour charging up. They're going to want/demand a charging station on every other corner where they can plug in for a few minutes to give them enough juice to run a few errands, make a commute cycle or two, and then do it again.

Electricity is a commodity as much as gas or salt. Getting the electricity from the generation facility into the car's battery is the same trick no matter what the manufacturer. Is it a good idea for industry to reinvent a massive infrastructure wheel 30 times over (or however many manufacturers there are) at billions or more each time around? Are consumers going to willingly pay for that?

Fortunately, we don't have to worry about Porsche charging more for Porsche Brand electricity than Chevy charges for their electricity because if history has taught us one lesson over and over again, it's that businesses always operates in the consumer's best interest and never tries to force consumers to pay inflated prices when they are locked in without choices.

So, free market, laissez faire, woo hoo, whatever. I don't think you make it to the tipping point without standards. It's better for the industry, it's better for consumers, it's probably better for governments.
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