Welp. S50B32 Rebuild Time...

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by JST

That's a very interesting video, though I guess one question left unanswered is how the E46 M3 sold in the US, and what that means for the argument that the S50 engined car wouldn't have sold here.

I think his argument is that the e36 m3 sold so well that they could then sell the more expensive e46 m3. Basically M got established in the US with the e36.

[Nick M3]

I don't really disagree with his argument. The E36 M3 created price room for the E46 M3 that likely wouldn't have existed without it.

That said, the E30 M3's problem wasn't so much price, as the fact that it was a worse car to use daily than the 325is. The E36 M3, US or not, was better in all the good ways, not worse in any way that mattered.

[JST]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

I don't really disagree with his argument. The E36 M3 created price room for the E46 M3 that likely wouldn't have existed without it.

That said, the E30 M3's problem wasn't so much price, as the fact that it was a worse car to use daily than the 325is. The E36 M3, US or not, was better in all the good ways, not worse in any way that mattered.

Yeah, I think that's the key point. And of course the pricing helped sell the cars--it's NUTS to think they were only whatever he said, $3K more than the 328. That's the steal of the century.

But that's why I think arguing that the EU M3 would have failed needs more proof. The Canadian example is interesting but the market there is pretty different, and presumably at scale the cars could have been priced somewhere between what the US and Canadian unicorns cost.

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by JST

Yeah, I think that's the key point. And of course the pricing helped sell the cars--it's NUTS to think they were only whatever he said, $3K more than the 328. That's the steal of the century.

But that's why I think arguing that the EU M3 would have failed needs more proof. The Canadian example is interesting but the market there is pretty different, and presumably at scale the cars could have been priced somewhere between what the US and Canadian unicorns cost.

Not to mention that the NA markets generally reject stripped out cars. NA cars are almost always shipped with a much higher base option package than EU. And Canada imported base EU cars because they clearly just had to take them at EU prices.

[John V]

I think Cammisa was pretty bang-on. The E36 was junky inside compared to the E46 but it's a much more pleasant and entertaining car to drive. I loved my "S50" M3 and really never could warm up to Ken's S54 E46s. They just weren't playful and balanced in the way the lighter E36 was. Nick's car is phenomenal and I want one, badly, but I don't think the average American 325i buyer in 1994 would have seen enough value to be upsold to that car compared to the screaming deal that the M50-based M3 had.

[Nick M3]

I think that 300hp would have turned heads at a somewhat higher price point. That’s the only real point of contention with his video.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by John V

I don't think the average American 325i buyer in 1994 would have seen enough value to be upsold to that car

In 1998 or so, a friend of a friend bought a used 96 325i from a dealer. Salesman said they had put on a "sport" exhaust. Said they could knock off $300 by putting the OE exhaust back on, but the friend of a friend said he thought it sounded great and was happy to pay the extra $300.

First question when we heard it, "Are they going to fix the hole in your exhaust?"

Americans can be upsold on quite a bit.

[John V]

Being upsold $300 is a bit different than being upsold $10 or $20 thousand dollars. You're talking a completely different class of car at that point. Today's comparison would be a BRZ versus a base Cayman.

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by John V

Being upsold $300 is a bit different than being upsold $10 or $20 thousand dollars. You're talking a completely different class of car at that point. Today's comparison would be a BRZ versus a base Cayman.

We're talking $10k price delta max. The only meaningful cost difference is in the motor. The last price before S50B32s went NLA for $9400 Euros for a long block. And you know full well that BMW takes a lot of profit in parts sales.

The key here is that the $55k number is obviously wrong. The E46 M3 was sold in the mid $40s. I don't think that there's a plausible argument for the E36 being more expensive to make that the E46.

[Nick M3]

So, really, a true US version of the proper E36 M3 would probably have started at about $40k IMO.

286 to 321hp for $40k in the mid 90s in a brilliant handling car. Is anyone seriously arguing that that wouldn't have sold like hotcakes?