Tesla Model S waffling - Page 40

JST · 10-05-2013, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

Our Tesla test drive is scheduled for 1 pm tomorrow (Sat). Not sure if I really want to know how much I like it.

Are they doing drives out of the Montgomery Mall location, or are you going downtown?

TD · 10-05-2013, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

Are they doing drives out of the Montgomery Mall location, or are you going downtown?

Montgomery Mall.

I swear, between the location of the service center and the Montgomery Mall sales location, it's meant to be. Too bad the math is an increment or two outside of my comfort zone.

ZBB · 10-05-2013, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

Montgomery Mall.

I swear, between the location of the service center and the Montgomery Mall sales location, it's meant to be. Too bad the math is an increment or two outside of my comfort zone.

I'm still dumbfounded the math worked out for me... So far the cash flow has been favorable to the Boxster. But if the Boxster hadn't held its value as well as it did, there's no way the math would have worked (since I've always rolled any equity in my cars over to the next car, and I doubled the equity I put into the Boxster when I sold it...)

My monthly loan payment is within $1 of what I had been paying on both my previous cars (Boxster and CTS), although I was paying ~$100/mo extra on those cars and for the Tesla I'm now paying the min loan payment.

Insurance is ~$25/mo higher, and I'm saving right around $150/mo on gas. I'll probably start putting most of the extra cash flow against the loan balance in November. And I still need to get the $7500 federal tax credit next spring...

TD · 10-05-2013, 03:12 PM

wdc330i · 10-05-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

Is that you driving one home.

ZBB · 10-05-2013, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZBB

CHAdeMO charging: This is a Japanese standard fast DC charging station, and supported by the Leaf and Mitsubishi i. Doesn't charge as fast as a Supercharger, but can deliver 65kW per hour, and there are already 11 of these installed in the Phoenix area. BUT -- Tesla does not offer an adapter yet. They are apparently working on one for when they introduce the Model S to Japan -- but no word yet on if it will be offered for sale in the US, or cost. If they do, it likely would require the Supercharger hardware on the car. Would add a lot of flexibility.

Tesla posted a CHAdeMO adapter on their site today -- will be avail this winter. Pricey though -- $1k and it requires Supercharger-equipped cars. Adds 70 miles of range per hour of charge (seems to equate to 25kW charging -- 2.5x what 240V 50A charging I get at home, an 7x what I was getting when I charged at my office yesterday on the crappy Blink Network chargers (Blink has gone bankrupt, and they de-rated some of their chargers due to an overheating issue that has fried some charge ports on customer cars...)

http://shop.teslamotors.com/collecti...hademo-adapter

I don't think I'll get one though -- I'd have to use it ~30 times to justify the cost. There are 17 CHAdeMO chargers in AZ, but all but 3 are in the Phoenix area, with the 2 more along I-10 between Phoenix and Tucson, and the last one in Tucson.

But if I lived in OR or WA, I'd really consider one -- there are 95 CHAdeMO stations avail, many on routes that Tesla doesn't plan SuperChargers. That really opens up charging options for Tesla owners in the NW...

ZBB · 10-06-2013, 12:14 AM

So how was it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

TD · 10-06-2013, 10:39 AM

I haven't had much time to compose my thoughts since the drive, but here goes...

It's an impressive car but because I have read a lot of other folks' takes on the car already, I think I ended up impressed with different things. Let me explain.

We drove a P85+, which is the fastest Tesla S available. Everyone talks about how fast it is. And it is. But after hearing about it, when I experienced it I was like, "Yup. It's fast alright." I think the overall refinement impacted my butt dyno which registered "damn fast" but actually short of "holy shit". I remember JST's E90 M3 inspiring more of a holy shit reaction from me when I got on it. Like I said, I think it's a butt dyno bias due to the refinement.

On the other hand, I was much more impressed than I thought I'd be at the overall execution. The car is so very much a real car in ways well beyond my expectations. The fit and finish and detail is on par with the best executed cars anywhere. There is nothing about the car that screams "brand new car company's first ground-up effort". That impressed me a lot.

The car feels heavy and with all of the settings set to their sportiest, the steering is heavy too (a good thing). Aside from the huge delta in power, the ride reminded me of the E39 that still sits in front of our house - heavy but perfectly damped suspension and absolutely no lean in turns.

After a circuit that involved repeatedly pegging the speed limiter (the demos are capped at 80 mph), I ended up in some surface road traffic. Through that, the car just felt incredibly normal - again, a good bit like the E39. In traffic, the lack of a transmission with gears ends up feeling a lot like a well executed automatic. I am ambivalent about that observation. I mean, there would be nothing to do with a stick on this car but I still want to be more involved in driving something this capable. So I still sort of missed that.

After how much I was impressed by the overall execution (and the power), the next biggest thing I registered was just how BIG the thing is. It's HUGE. And this might be the trait that most helps me wait for the more 3-series-scaled Tesla due in 2016. I would otherwise never consider a car this large. It's large (wide, especially) which you really notice when parking or navigating in and out of the mall parking garage where Tesla keeps them between test drives.

Still, I do want one. And I imagine a big part of that is wanting one before everyone has one. The appeal of being an early adopter is strong (as JST once noted here). But as I've said here before, I would not be in the market for a 7-series or S-class even if I had the funds. I just don't want a car that large. So why would I be in the market for an electric competitor to those cars simply to be an early adopter? It's easy to be irrational about this car. But that is the rational argument that helps me be content with the current fleet for a while longer.

ZBB · 10-06-2013, 11:48 AM

Great observations -- and I agree completely. Part of the butt dyno affect is that refinement -- the power delivery is just so smooth and quiet and our butt dynos are not tuned to that.

The E39 comparison is apt -- the steering and suspension damping are very similar to the E39. It really feels like a spiritual successor to pre-Bangle BMWs -- which is amazing since it is the first ground-up product from a start-up company. Much of that is Musk being opportunistic with hiring -- a good chunk of the engineering team came from Ford SVT (and worked on the Ford GT), while many of their manufacturing guys came from Toyota.

As for steering, I've tried all 3 settings, and 2 of them are good (the lightest is way too boosted). The sport setting is very heavy feeling and is what I use, although I used the middle "regular" mode for a week and it was fine in driving and gave just a bit more boost in low speed / parking situations.

As for size -- yes, its huge. Dimensions are similar to a Panamera and A7 -- although the Tesla is wider than both. It took a little while to get used to the length, especially in parking lots -- and that was probably more of an issue for me since I was coming from the Boxster. I think a GenIII/Model E may be my next car after this -- I'm still not fully comfortable with just how big a car this is...

ZBB · 10-10-2013, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TD

After a circuit that involved repeatedly pegging the speed limiter (the demos are capped at 80 mph)

I had a loaner P85 yesterday while my car was at service to replace the interior rear-view mirror (it had a chip in the glass at delivery -- probably was bumped prior to being installed and the part finally came in to replace it).

The loaners also have the 80 mph limiter enabled, and I noticed there is also a cruise control limiter -- although set at 72. Most of the freeways here have 65 limits, and most people go 10 or so over. Pushing the cruise control stick up would not do anything above 72...

On a side note, my car was the last one serviced at the temporary Phoenix service center. They are moving into their permanent location in Scottsdale -- they started moving last night and will start doing service work there next week...

10-06-2013, 11:48 AM	#399
ZBB Relic Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: A very fast golf cart Location: The Valley of the Sun Posts: 12,821	Great observations -- and I agree completely. Part of the butt dyno affect is that refinement -- the power delivery is just so smooth and quiet and our butt dynos are not tuned to that. The E39 comparison is apt -- the steering and suspension damping are very similar to the E39. It really feels like a spiritual successor to pre-Bangle BMWs -- which is amazing since it is the first ground-up product from a start-up company. Much of that is Musk being opportunistic with hiring -- a good chunk of the engineering team came from Ford SVT (and worked on the Ford GT), while many of their manufacturing guys came from Toyota. As for steering, I've tried all 3 settings, and 2 of them are good (the lightest is way too boosted). The sport setting is very heavy feeling and is what I use, although I used the middle "regular" mode for a week and it was fine in driving and gave just a bit more boost in low speed / parking situations. As for size -- yes, its huge. Dimensions are similar to a Panamera and A7 -- although the Tesla is wider than both. It took a little while to get used to the length, especially in parking lots -- and that was probably more of an issue for me since I was coming from the Boxster. I think a GenIII/Model E may be my next car after this -- I'm still not fully comfortable with just how big a car this is... __________________ ZBB

10-05-2013, 03:12 PM	#394
TD Founder emeritus Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 21,007

10-06-2013, 10:39 AM	#398
TD Founder emeritus Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Maryland Posts: 21,007	I haven't had much time to compose my thoughts since the drive, but here goes... It's an impressive car but because I have read a lot of other folks' takes on the car already, I think I ended up impressed with different things. Let me explain. We drove a P85+, which is the fastest Tesla S available. Everyone talks about how fast it is. And it is. But after hearing about it, when I experienced it I was like, "Yup. It's fast alright." I think the overall refinement impacted my butt dyno which registered "damn fast" but actually short of "holy shit". I remember JST's E90 M3 inspiring more of a holy shit reaction from me when I got on it. Like I said, I think it's a butt dyno bias due to the refinement. On the other hand, I was much more impressed than I thought I'd be at the overall execution. The car is so very much a real car in ways well beyond my expectations. The fit and finish and detail is on par with the best executed cars anywhere. There is nothing about the car that screams "brand new car company's first ground-up effort". That impressed me a lot. The car feels heavy and with all of the settings set to their sportiest, the steering is heavy too (a good thing). Aside from the huge delta in power, the ride reminded me of the E39 that still sits in front of our house - heavy but perfectly damped suspension and absolutely no lean in turns. After a circuit that involved repeatedly pegging the speed limiter (the demos are capped at 80 mph), I ended up in some surface road traffic. Through that, the car just felt incredibly normal - again, a good bit like the E39. In traffic, the lack of a transmission with gears ends up feeling a lot like a well executed automatic. I am ambivalent about that observation. I mean, there would be nothing to do with a stick on this car but I still want to be more involved in driving something this capable. So I still sort of missed that. After how much I was impressed by the overall execution (and the power), the next biggest thing I registered was just how BIG the thing is. It's HUGE. And this might be the trait that most helps me wait for the more 3-series-scaled Tesla due in 2016. I would otherwise never consider a car this large. It's large (wide, especially) which you really notice when parking or navigating in and out of the mall parking garage where Tesla keeps them between test drives. Still, I do want one. And I imagine a big part of that is wanting one before everyone has one. The appeal of being an early adopter is strong (as JST once noted here). But as I've said here before, I would not be in the market for a 7-series or S-class even if I had the funds. I just don't want a car that large. So why would I be in the market for an electric competitor to those cars simply to be an early adopter? It's easy to be irrational about this car. But that is the rational argument that helps me be content with the current fleet for a while longer.