JST and TD's Excellent Adventure

[JST]

...through the various car dealers in Sterling, VA.

4 cars driven; quick thoughts follow.

05 Mini Cooper S

This car had a variety of options, none of which I was particularly paying attention to. It did NOT have the LSD, and it had 17" all-season run-flats.

The power increase over 04 seems noticeable to me, though it has been almost a year since I've driven an 04, so maybe I'm making that up. The Mini continues to impress me with its very BMW-like control inputs--the shifter is solid and precise and the steering is firm, direct and communicative. There is more than a whiff of torque steer, especially when you give it a lot of gas right ouf of a tight corner. The supercharger whines like a lost puppy.

Of course, the thing with the Mini is handling, and it does that well, even on Eagle RS-As. The body control is excellent, and in an impromptu slalom the rear wants to rotate, which is pretty cool in a FWD car.

The inside is small, but there is good headroom and as long as you are only taking two people (maybe 2+1), it's not too bad, unless any of those people have luggage. The interior, which was sort of cutesy when the car was introduced, looks frankly stupid after a couple of years of familiarity. Its full of gimmicks, and the center mount speedo remains the dumbest interior design decision since the CRT-equipped Buick Reatta.

Fun car. Worth 26K? Mm. Probably not.


05 Volvo S60R

Volvo presents a car designed by IKEA, which is not a bad thing. The interior is very well executed, the seats supportive and comfortable, and there are lots of nice details like the extended leather on the dash and the blue metallic gauges.

After romping on the gas through the first two gears, the only thing I could say is "Huh." It's fast, yes, but the engine has absolutely no soul. Imagine an industrial power plant, like one of the MAN diesels that they put into freighters, and you get an idea of what this engine is like. It delivers substantial power, but there's no joyful buzz to the redline, no surge of boost, no buzz and clatter from the valvetrain--just a somewhat pronounced roar and good acceleration.

The shifter is surprisingly good, close-coupled and slick, despite the strange "Spaceball" shift gaiter. The suspension has three modes, Comfort, Sport and Advanced, which roughly translate to "Buick," "ZHP" and "Fuck Your Kidneys, Bitch." Handling in either Sport or Advanced is acceptable; on the slalom course, it's clear that the S60 is a lot more car than the Mini, and it resolutely refuses to do anything like rotate its tail, but roll control and response are generally good.

The steering is much, much better than on the T5, but has variable assist that is annoying at low speeds. Steering feel at higher speeds is muted. The brakes, which are multi-pot Brembos with decent rotors, stop the car with authority.

Drive this car at 8 or 9/10s, and it feels like you are beating on it. Drive it at 5/10s, and it gains some fluidity, and it starts to become a willing partner. In wagon form, as family transport for someone who likes to drive fast on the street, this car makes a lot of sense. At the same time, thinking about it a bit more, the Legacy GT is hugely cheaper, just as fast or faster, also has AWD, and has a nicer engine. The interior in the Leg GT isn't as nice, but it isn't a penalty box, either.


Jetta GLI

I was hoping for a lot more from this car. Torque steer is the order of the day, especially exiting tight turns, and it has an even greater propensity for barbecuing the inside tire than does the Mini. The suspension feels a lot better and more composed than my old 02 GTI, but the 18" wheels might be too much for the car, because it also feels a bit more sluggish than the GTI did. The engine has a bootful of torque at low speeds, which is good for darting around in traffic, but it runs out of breath at higher speeds. The seats are very good, though.

As a last hurrah for the old chassis, the GLI is nice. But the old chassis really is old, and it wasn't that good when it was new. The new GTI cannot come soon enough for VW.

04 R32

The dealer had a used one, with 7500 miles on it. Between puffs on a crack pipe, the salesman managed to choke out that they were asking 29K for it, which (because it didn't have leather) was almost MSRP. Maybe there is a market for this car at this price, but I am not in it.

That said, the R32 is really a special car. It was instructive driving the R32 back-to-back with the GLI--I've always thought that the 20thAE/337/GLI lighter-is-better approach was preferable to the R32's TT-esque hardware, but I was wrong. The R32 is more fun to drive, much faster in real-world conditions, eliminates the torque steer of the GLI, and just feels sporting in a way that the GLI doesn't.

Lots of guys knock this car, and it is not as inherently balanced as either the E46 or the E36. But as a daily driver, you could do much, much worse. The R32 provides very willing performance, an engine that likes to rev, seats that are the best OEM units I've ever sampled, tight, controlled handling, and a spacious interior package--this combination is unique in the market.

To sum up:

Learned some things, confirmed some other things, still haven't bought a car.

[lemming]

no mug-stangK manual, though, i see.

nice writeups.

i'm not fond of the s60R at all and think the same as you do about the mini. handles decently but it's wearing thin just two years out.

i'm still not sold on the r32, either. it isn't a sports car and it's still way expensive. it's difficult for me to see how that car outdoes your WRX wagon (okay, torque) or a legacy gt.

the legacy GT is damn good at its job in life: point a to point b in any weather with some speed. i cannot, empirically or on paper, find a vehicle that commutes with this power reserve and all weather capability better than this one at this pricepoint.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

Learned some things, confirmed some other things, still haven't bought a car.

Still TBD, huh?

Go with your gut.

[FC]

I expected exactly what you wrote about the Volvo. I can't stand my parents Volvo. You guys know I am not a huge sticker about a lot of performance stuff, but the level of isolation, crappy power delivery, feel, and involvement was simply overwhelming. Even my wife noticed it.

Regarding the Cooper S, I really want to test drive one just so it is not in the back of my head and my wife's head without knowing what it is really like. The car (to me and her) is incredibly cute and actually has some very good traits as a driver's car, but while she said she wouldn't mind a stiff suspension and a whiney engine I think I rather hear that from here after she's driven one.

The way she wants one (loaded to the gills and with LSD) it comes to almost 28K MSRP ( ). It will have to be a while even if we both like it.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by clyde

Still TBD, huh?

Go with your gut.

insight, please.

[TD]

Interestingly, over the years, JST and I have agreed much more often than not on all things automotive. This afternoon was not an exception. As we discussed these cars as we drove them, and largely agreed on our assesments, JST has pretty much already covered the major points. So I'll throw in my sidebar observations.

Mini Cooper S- The additional horsepower IS noticed but, IMO it's still about 10 horsepower short. It's quick. And nimble. But no one would really confuse it with a fast car. And the cuteness has really grown old on me. And that's the thing. Objectively, it's a very, very good car that does a lot of things very, very well (even on crappy tires). But I just can't bring myself to care. Especially not to the tune of $26K. BTW, while we were over at Mini, we took a stroll through the adjacent BMW showroom. It's truly unsettling for a long-time BMW enthusiast like myself to walk through a BMW showroom and not feel a single pang of lust. I didn't even feel it for the ZCP M3 in Interlagos Blue sitting on the showroom floor. Sure, it's a nice car. But I can't see opening my wallet to the tune of $62K to get one.

Volve S60R- Hmph. JST drove it first and from a dead stop, he blasted through the gears. From the passenger seat, the car seemed to be doing a pretty effective job of hauling ass. That's when JST simply uttered, "Huh." I couldn't figure out if it was an impressed "huh" or a disgusted "huh". But it turns out it was neither. It was more a befuddled "huh". Yup, the engine. If we could change two things about this car, it would go from being pretty good to being a car I would be doing financial contortions to purchase. One, fix the engine. Sure, it delivers a lot of power. But the how of how it delivers this power is the problem. "Agricultural" came to mind. However, terms like "smooth" were no where near our lips. It just spoils the fun. And my other gripe is the variable assist power steering. It's okay at speed but it's laughable at lower speeds. I'd eventually end up curbing the rims in a parking lot after the steering suddenly produces such a unpredictable increase in boost. The variable suspension is pretty slick with the firmest setting actually being VERY firm, even for us (the softest setting is quite Buick-like - so the range is pretty wide - the middle setting would probably be where it would reside most days). And the interior layout and detailing is simply sublime. Throw in excellent brakes and understated but sharp exterior styling and you have a car that's really just an engine shy of being a contender at the highest levels. As it is, in wagon form it might make a great replacement for our Saab 9-5 Aero wagon in another year or so when we will be looking to replace it (it'll be coming off warranty and I will NOT be keeping that wagon outside of warranty). Like our Saab, the S60R has performance that is impressive for a family car but not impressive for a performance car. So, as long as it's not playing that role, I think it can be quite successful. I'll definitely revisit it this time next year.

VW Jetta GLI- Yawn. Talk about a car that inspires no enthusiasm. Hell, the Ford Focus I has as a loaner for the past few weeks was almost as much fun to drive as this thing. The 1.8T engine, which really does shine in many of it's applications really seemed to be a slug in this car. And the car's FWD layout was was too apparent Today we drove two FWD cars and two AWD cars with significant FWD bias in dry conditions. This was the only one that screamed FWD. And it was one that you just could not see justifying it's $25K sticker price. Which might explain why there were four copies on the lot.

VW R32- Simply put, I want this car. You guys that don't understand the appeal of this car have never driven one (or are so narrowly focused on things like autox classifications or track usability that you can't appreciate it). On paper, it makes no sense. It looks heavy, slow and expensive. But then you drive it. And it feels solid, quick and tossable. And that hard to quantify sense of direct, intuitive, comfortable and personal. It just feels good (maybe it's the seats). And it's simply a blast to drive. Yes, this dealership was hitting the crack pipe pretty hard in terms of their asking price. But after I went back there with my wife (after parting ways with JST and his wife), it was clear that there were willing to be flexible in order to move the car. We'll see how flexible when I call on Monday. For the record, my wife was very impressed with it as well. It's the first time in a while that she was really enthusiastic about a car after a test drive. She tore around in it about as hard as I did and had a pretty big grin on her face afterwords. Driving it back to back with my M3, I dare say the R32 is just fast and feels just as direct (but more solid and refined) - it definitely felt faster than any of the other cars we drove today (even the 300hp S60R). I doubt we'll come to terms on THIS copy, but I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with one. I just really really like this car.

So, yes, it was an educataional day. I can solidly cross the MCS off of my list of maybes. The GLI was never really on it, but now I'll know to snicker at those who bought one when I see them on the road. The S60R sort of ended up where I expected it to on points, but I was surprised that it was the engine rather than the suspension that proved to be the major weakness. As for the R32, I was hoping to not like it as much as I did after the my first test drive of one so that I could take it out of contention. But that didn't happen.

[Jason C]

Originally Posted by TD

BTW, while we were over at Mini, we took a stroll through the adjacent BMW showroom. It's truly unsettling for a long-time BMW enthusiast like myself to walk through a BMW showroom and not feel a single pang of lust. I didn't even feel it for the ZCP M3 in Interlagos Blue sitting on the showroom floor. Sure, it's a nice car. But I can't see opening my wallet to the tune of $62K to get one.

How about paying $10k less for that same car?

Btw, I find what you said about the R32 very intriguing. I try, but I can't really overlooks the related issues of getting one though (New VWs and reliability? Ha ha!). Still, it sounds interesting enough to warrent serious consideration.

[rumatt]

Interesting stuff guys....

[TD]

JST- I told you that it seems everyone starting hitting on the same pipe a couple of months back- Autotrader listings

The last hit is the one we drove.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by TD

VW R32- Simply put, I want this car. You guys that don't understand the appeal of this car have never driven one (or are so narrowly focused on things like autox classifications or track usability that you can't appreciate it). On paper, it makes no sense. It looks heavy, slow and expensive. But then you drive it. And it feels solid, quick and tossable. And that hard to quantify sense of direct, intuitive, comfortable and personal.

This first part of the paragraph has changed my opinion of the car. I want TD to get one, now. I really do. And I want to drive it, too...if he'll let me.

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