Tesla Cybertruck

[John V]

Originally Posted by clyde

Hmm, imagine that

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by rumatt

In CA I hear stories people sometimes have to wait in line

I've seen several recent posts of people waiting 1 hour+ for chargers in CA. The increased holiday traffic caused a backup.

I don't know if this supports some of the things being argued here (charging network is inadequate) or argues against it (Tesla's charging network should be shared with other manufactures) etc... just reporting facts.

Holiday surge traffic seems like a real thing, and I don't see a simple fix other than building in significant over-capacity. They're talking about having mobile chargers but I don't really see that making any sense.

[kognito]

Originally Posted by rumatt

I've seen several recent posts of people waiting 1 hour+ for chargers in CA. The increased holiday traffic caused a backup.

I don't know if this supports some of the things being argued here (charging network is inadequate) or argues against it (Tesla's charging network should be shared with other manufactures) etc... just reporting facts.

Holiday surge traffic seems like a real thing, and I don't see a simple fix other than building in significant over-capacity. They're talking about having mobile chargers but I don't really see that making any sense.

I wonder if electric shutdowns due to wildfire risks have an effect

[clyde]

Originally Posted by rumatt

I've seen several recent posts of people waiting 1 hour+ for chargers in CA. The increased holiday traffic caused a backup.

I don't know if this supports some of the things being argued here (charging network is inadequate) or argues against it (Tesla's charging network should be shared with other manufactures) etc... just reporting facts.

Holiday surge traffic seems like a real thing, and I don't see a simple fix other than building in significant over-capacity. They're talking about having mobile chargers but I don't really see that making any sense.

I thought the mobile charger idea was a pretty good one, assuming it would be substantially less expensive than adding more fixed chargers/locations that would likely go un/underused 360+ days a year.

Overall, I think it says there are enough Teslas on the road to push Tesla's model to the breaking point and supports the argument of there being a need for a more robust charging system for the EV model to work.

I'd also assume that most Tesla owners were/would have been okay with the long delay this year, but what about more mainstream owners? If they make the same drive next year, will they make it in their Tesla? Or in one of the ICE powered vehicles in their family fleets?

[ZBB]

I supercharged 14 times over the last ~10 days. We did a road trip down to Orlando just before Thanksgiving, returning home last Fri. Most of the Superchargers had at most 1-2 other cars. I never waited to plug in, and one station filled up while we were there, but was full for only a couple min (nobody pulled up while it was full). By the time I left about 10 min later, there were 3-4 other open spaces also.

I've only ever had to wait for a charger twice, both in CA and in the Bay Area (Gilroy and the Fremont factory). One wait was for ~2 min, the other for 5-7min.

One thing I noticed on this trip is that the charging has gotten much faster. Partly a combination of having a bigger battery, and partly faster chargers (we only used V2 chargers that top out at 150kW, haven't used a V3 that goes to 250kW yet). Here's what my stats show for my early Model S vs the Model 3:

Model S 60 -- would hit a max charge rate of ~105kW, but very quickly tapered down, and was under 10kW by 90%
- 191 total supercharges
- Added 100 rated miles per charge (average)
- Added ~29.9 kWh to the pack per charge (average)
- Average charge time: 44min
- Average charging speed: 135 miles added per hour

Model 3 -- saw a max charge rate of ~145kW at several stops; tapers much slower (was still at ~36kW at 90% charge)
- 14 supercharges on this trip
- 164 rated miles added per charge (average - ranged from 56 to 237)
- 41.4kWh added per charge (average - ranged from 14.5 to 58.7 per TeslaFi logging)
- 31 min average charge time (range from 8 min to 1 hour 11 min)
- Average charging speed: 351 miles added per hour

The long charge of 1 hour 11 min was done over dinner, and is the only charge to 100% we did during the trip. There was a very bad accident on the Florida Turnpike (road closed), and we decided to grab dinner and a charge instead of sitting in traffic. The last 30 min of this charge was the battery doing its balancing act (running down and topping off individual cells). Interestingly, we arrived at our hotel at Disney about 30 min later than the ETA said we would be there before we decided to stop. So the ~90 min total stop only cost us 30 min actual time. Not bad...

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by rumatt

They're talking about having mobile chargers but I don't really see that making any sense.

Tesla has mobile chargers. The pic below is me charging at one in 2014 -- this was set up at Laguna Seca for an event I participated in... There is one charger that outputs to 2 connectors (which is the standard Supercharger setup -- 2 cars share a charger, and the Supercharger gives the first to arrive more power, ramping the 2nd car up as the first car ramps down...).

These mobile chargers sit on a pallet that can be moved by a forklift. The only problem with them is that they need a power source nearby -- basically a transformer with extra capacity.

The question is -- how many transformers like that are avail out there in the wild, and how fast could temporary charging stations be put up to deal with surge demand?

[equ]

Originally Posted by rumatt

I
I don't know if this supports some of the things being argued here (charging network is inadequate) or argues against it (Tesla's charging network should be shared with other manufactures) etc... just reporting facts.

Just to clarify... I never said someone or the gov't should "make Tesla share its network". I'd rather that there was a mandated standard that all EV's could plug into. That would allow independent providers to build charging stations for every maker. It would allow current gas stations to start installing chargers. How infuriating would it be if the gas nozzle was car-specific?

If some makers have already built their network, that does complicate matters, but having a standard plug doesn't imply that non-Tesla's get to have free charging at Tesla stations. There would be room for price competition amongst providers and hopefully some rules against price-gouging. Tesla the station could bill non-Tesla's for electricity plus some profit on top. Tesla station could bill Tesla cars whatever it wants: as much as the outsider price or less or even zero. In fact, Tesla stations could be ahead of everyone else in that their cost is already capitalized and they could provide electricity likely cheaper than their competitors gaining them volume... I like the idea of unbundling the carmaker and the power network... It's plain wasteful to have gas stations specific to GM, Ford and Toyota not to mention the monopoly potential.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by clyde

I thought the mobile charger idea was a pretty good one, assuming it would be substantially less expensive than adding more fixed chargers/locations that would likely go un/underused 360+ days a year.

Overall, I think it says there are enough Teslas on the road to push Tesla's model to the breaking point and supports the argument of there being a need for a more robust charging system for the EV model to work.

I'd also assume that most Tesla owners were/would have been okay with the long delay this year, but what about more mainstream owners? If they make the same drive next year, will they make it in their Tesla? Or in one of the ICE powered vehicles in their family fleets?

Clyde --
I've previously encouraged you to spend some time on Plugshare taking a look at what is available... I still recommend you spend some time there. Filter to the CCS/SAE adapter, which is the industry standard non-Tesla fast charge used by most other automakers (all except Nissan basically...). Between EVgo and Electrify America, these chargers are getting close to the coverage of Tesla's Supercharger network. The only downside is variability -- many of these are capped at 50kW (especially EVgo stations...). Electrify America* is putting in mostly 150kW stations, with usually 1 unit at each station that can do 350kW (ie the "Taycan Special").

* Electrify America is funded by the VW dieselgate settlement...

Most of the CCS/SAE stations also have CHAdeMO stalls for Nissan (or Teslas with the adapter). It will be interesting to see if Tesla releases a CCS adapter in the US...

[clyde]

Originally Posted by ZBB

Clyde --
I've previously encouraged you to spend some time on Plugshare taking a look at what is available... I still recommend you spend some time there. Filter to the CCS/SAE adapter, which is the industry standard non-Tesla fast charge used by most other automakers (all except Nissan basically...). Between EVgo and Electrify America, these chargers are getting close to the coverage of Tesla's Supercharger network. The only downside is variability -- many of these are capped at 50kW (especially EVgo stations...). Electrify America* is putting in mostly 150kW stations, with usually 1 unit at each station that can do 350kW (ie the "Taycan Special").

* Electrify America is funded by the VW dieselgate settlement...

Most of the CCS/SAE stations also have CHAdeMO stalls for Nissan (or Teslas with the adapter). It will be interesting to see if Tesla releases a CCS adapter in the US...

Set to a minimum 50kW (which your descriptions suggest would be painfully slow) the picture in the DC area is pretty bleak.

[clyde]

With how quickly Tesla ramped up from early S deliveries to nearly 100k cars/quarter, it's amazing how far we still haven't come on charging

Starting around this post:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?p=386757