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Old 09-17-2019, 11:31 AM   #101
equ
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Originally Posted by robg View Post
Hopefully musk will be just as motivated to achieve Porsche level build quality in the redesigned model s (whenever it comes out)
Uh, let me not hold my breath for that. He is not going to beat Porsche (or even German manufacturers in general) by having higher build quality or more redundancy built in or repeated racetrack use. That's their game not Elon's.

He is beating them with a head start (battery tech & drive units), charging network, stock pricing and software/UI (a traditional American forte) with a good amount of razzle dazzle thrown in. Not that any manufacturer is above razzle dazzle.

The stock price advantage is considerable. As long as you have billions of valuation that is not tightly tied to your operating margin, you can afford to invest in R&D, sell at a loss and make all sorts of bets. Of course, there is strong engineering underneath, but start-ups are partially self-fulfilling.
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Old 09-17-2019, 11:38 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by ff View Post
T Fortunately, it's not terribly often that you see people driving EVs with their hair on fire. It's seldom enough that I never think about it as being a threat to my safety.

Teens staring at their cell phones while driving, however...
This is true. But I wonder if it will change over time.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:07 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by equ View Post
Uh, let me not hold my breath for that. He is not going to beat Porsche (or even German manufacturers in general) by having higher build quality or more redundancy built in or repeated racetrack use. That's their game not Elon's.

He is beating them with a head start (battery tech & drive units), charging network, stock pricing and software/UI (a traditional American forte) with a good amount of razzle dazzle thrown in. Not that any manufacturer is above razzle dazzle.

The stock price advantage is considerable. As long as you have billions of valuation that is not tightly tied to your operating margin, you can afford to invest in R&D, sell at a loss and make all sorts of bets. Of course, there is strong engineering underneath, but start-ups are partially self-fulfilling.
Sadly, I think you're right. Personally, I'm not ready to jump on the EV bandwagon until I can have both (decent build quality + Tesla battery and drivetrain tech). As far as software/UI, I'd actually rather have one of the better German infotainment systems than Teslas just cause I find them to have more useful features and better thought out. Tesla definitely outdoes them on razzle dazzle though.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:26 PM   #104
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A one-off engineering mule "beating" a production Porsche EV time around a racetrack in Germany is a mildly interesting piece of trivia, I suppose, but it is ultimately meaningless.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:47 PM   #105
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A one-off engineering mule "beating" a production Porsche EV time around a racetrack in Germany is a mildly interesting piece of trivia, I suppose, but it is ultimately meaningless.
All 'ring times are ultimately meaningless; they mean even less than 0-60 times for the average driver.
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:50 PM   #106
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https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1173992505672519680

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elon

Replying to
@Teslarati
Itís a start. We expect these track times to be beaten by the actual production 7 seat Model S Plaid variant that goes into production around Oct/Nov next year.
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:29 PM   #107
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This is true. But I wonder if it will change over time.
Inevitable, I think.
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Old 09-17-2019, 04:37 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by JST View Post
All 'ring times are ultimately meaningless; they mean even less than 0-60 times for the average driver.
Sports cars are meaningless. But people buy them anyway.

Why make cars like a Porsche 911 and then evaluate it based on how well it drives the speed limit to the grocery store and back?

It's a purpose built device designed to do something that you don't actually intend to use it for, but it's fun drive it around on public roads anyway. Once you accept this premise (which admittedly makes very little sense), evaluating it on the ring is a very reasonable thing to do.
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