Tesla Model Y

[lemming]

Originally Posted by rumatt

I'm completely lost. You started this track of discussion by saying



I countered by pointing out that Tesla still has a huge advantages in terms of charging infrastructure and this will play a major role in them not being steamrolled by these mainstream automakers you mentioned.

And your counter is that Tesla's charging infrastructure isn't perfect? Whatever criticisms you have of the current state of Tesla's infrastructure, it's 10x (100x?) worse for all the other manufactures.



I agree with you. It's dumb and makes no sense at all because it completely missed the original point, which was that Tesla is not anywhere near fearing the competition, at least yet anyway. The market is theirs.

Answer the question. How long does a full charge take on a supercharger?

[JST]

The question is literally irrelevant, and also it depends on how big your battery is, and how drained it is.

As a practical matter, my car is always done charging by the time I’m done eating.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by JST

The question is literally irrelevant, and also it depends on how big your battery is, and how drained it is.

As a practical matter, my car is always done charging by the time I’m done eating.

Also depends on how much of a charge you need to get to your next stop (with some buffer). Out of my over 150 Supercharger visits, I’ve only done a full charge a handful of times (less than 10).

And I agree — the car is usually done charging before I’m ready to move on. And you can take time for a bio break, snack or meal.

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by lemming

Answer the question. How long does a full charge take on a supercharger?

Roughtly 1/10th the time it takes the competition on their level 2 chargers.

Why do you keep switching the discussion?

You said:

And obsolete in two years when the mainstream automakers all load up in this EV Crossover space.

How is the Model Y going to be obsolete in 2 years after a bunch of competitors produce less desirable products? That is what I'm asking you about. I am NOT advocating or arguing that EV's are for everyone, despite you continuing to go down that path.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by rumatt

Roughtly 1/10th the time it takes the competition on their level 2 chargers.

Why do you keep switching the discussion?

You said:



How is the Model Y going to be obsolete in 2 years after a bunch of competitors produce less desirable products? That is what I'm asking you about. I am NOT advocating or arguing that EV's are for everyone, despite you continuing to go down that path.

Porsche Taycan charging is supposed to be faster. I wanted a data point.

Obsolete after two years: because the looks are already hideous and by then you’ll have EVs from all of the Germans in the space.

Even right now: would most buyers opt for the I Pace or the Y?

I’m happy to continue this with you for the next two years.

[JST]

Would most buyers opt for an iPace? I doubt it. The specs on the iPace aren’t so great, and the charging network is way worse.

I mean, that’s part of the reason Tesla sales dwarf iPace sales.

Fwiw, the much larger, much heavier model x is something like 23 percent more efficient on the highway than the jag. That’s a *big* difference.

https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/31...ut-efficiency/

The Model y will obvs just widen that advantage.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

Would most buyers opt for an iPace? I doubt it. The specs on the iPace aren’t so great, and the charging network is way worse.



I mean, that’s part of the reason Tesla sales dwarf iPace sales.



Fwiw, the much larger, much heavier model x is something like 23 percent more efficient on the highway than the jag. That’s a *big* difference.



https://cleantechnica.com/2018/10/31...ut-efficiency/



The Model y will obvs just widen that advantage.

Given the choice between a Macan, GLC or Y, I just think the nod goes to the brand names.

[JST]

Maybe for some people, but at the same time Tesla has built pretty aspirational brand equity. And I’m telling you, the iPace isn’t even close to the current gen Teslas in terms of tech/efficiency. None of those others will be, either. The range on the Merc, in particular, sounds like it’s going to be laughably bad.

Teslas biggest challenge will be lack of sales and service locations. Thats a big deal, and it’s one that I’m not sure they can overcome.

But the cars themselves aren’t going to be obsolete in 2 years. Hell, a 2012 P85 is actually more efficient and has better specs than a brand new iPace. In 2 years, my Model 3 is still going to be capable of 0-60 faster than almost anything else on the road, and it will undoubtedly still be among the longest range EVs in the world.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

Maybe for some people, but at the same time Tesla has built pretty aspirational brand equity. And I’m telling you, the iPace isn’t even close to the current gen Teslas in terms of tech/efficiency. None of those others will be, either. The range on the Merc, in particular, sounds like it’s going to be laughably bad.



Teslas biggest challenge will be lack of sales and service locations. Thats a big deal, and it’s one that I’m not sure they can overcome.



But the cars themselves aren’t going to be obsolete in 2 years. Hell, a 2012 P85 is actually more efficient and has better specs than a brand new iPace. In 2 years, my Model 3 is still going to be capable of 0-60 faster than almost anything else on the road, and it will undoubtedly still be among the longest range EVs in the world.

Let me refine what obsolete means to me: if Merc, BmW and Porsche come out with EVs like the Audi E-Tron GT and Taycan —those are “fresh” vehicles from manufacturers that can do LCI-type updates in 3 years and new generations every 7 years. Plus the dealer network.

If as a consumer you could buy a Model S, you have to cross shop it with a Taycan. And if a Taycan can do a full charge in 30min, the penalty for EV use is minimized.

This is why I was asking how long it takes. On a typical NY to Boston trip, you’re at the limit of the car and need to charge each way. Both cities suck for EV infrastructure so you need to rely on Supercharging. Hoping there’s not a line of cars ahead of you.

That would add unnecessary stress to me or a lot of my colleagues who run that gauntlet a lot because our Corp HQ is NYC but the labs are in BOS. And flying is meh and Amtrak is $175 each way and always late. Hence the questions about specifics.

If my life or most city dweller life was easy to charge overnight this is, like many of you point out, not even a point. But whenever I park in NYC, it’s clear to me that even if each garage has 5 chargers, there’s probably 10-15 EVs fighting to charge.

I don’t think EVs are dumb. I think Tesla is ahead of the curve. And they will be remembered down the line. Like the Newton, Palm Pilot, Treo and BlackBerry.

[rumatt]

Originally Posted by lemming

Given the choice between a Macan, GLC or Y, I just think the nod goes to the brand names.

We are stuck in a loop. Can you help me break it?

1. You: other brands will make Model Y obsolete in 2 years
2. Me: the supercharger network will remain a huge differentiator for Tesla
3. You: supercharges aren't fast enough.
4. Me: Huh? At least they exist, and are vastly better than the competition
5. GOTO 1

You "give the nod" to the brand names despite them having vastly inferior charging networks? Do you not think being able to take a road trip in your car is important to EV car buyers?

Then you mentioned inconvenience of driving BOS - NYC which suggests you actually care a lot about road trips. Have you compared the experience of making that trip in a Tesla to all the other brands you're giving the "nod" to. Hint: it's a huge win for Tesla.

Then you mention theoretical max charging speed. Even if the Taycan can do a full charge in 30 minutes (we'll see if that plays out in the real world) it doesn't help you if there are no chargers on your route. Are you arguing that in the 2 year time-frame we're discussing there will be as many Porsche charging stations as there are Tesla Superchargers?