Considering a used Model S as our next car

[robg]

I still think they are some of the best looking 4 door cars on the road right now (up there with the new Panamera and Audi A6/7). Have driven a few over the past 7 years (just short test drives) and always enjoyed the experience. You can now find some 2016 90Ds for less than 50k (with the additional 4/50 Tesla used warranty). I've had on-again off-again interest in them since 2013 or so.

For that price/performance/practicality/warranty the only other cars I could find were a 2014 Audi S7 from CarMax (45k) or a new Kia Stinger GT (~40k). Criteria is fast hatchbacks/wagons with adaptive cruise control and no 4 cyl engines under 50k (and not ugly a la BMW 3/5 GT).

But the more I research, the more downsides I find. Starting from the fact that they are no longer re-conditioning on used cars and you can't even inspect it before putting down a 1k non-refundable deposit (and test driving is completely out of the question apparently). You can request pictures for a car via email but what you get back are typically low res and blurry. There could be a tennis ball size dent on a panel and you wouldn't be able to tell. Some people have luck getting Tesla to fix damage, but most of the time they'll just tell you it's "as is" from what i've read. You can switch your deposit to another car once. It's also not uncommon for it to take months to get your title after purchasing. So it's basically like dealing with a very shady used car dealer.

Then there's all the stuff that affects any Model S (few interior storage cubbies, no sunshade for the roof, poor media player/bluetooth integration, no way to mirror phone based media/mapping apps on the center screen, uncomfortable rear seat, poor panel fit, high chance of random issues, understaffed service depts, UI getting worse with software updates, who knows if Tesla will last the duration of the warranty, etc).

There's definitely a fascination with this vehicle over other choices, but I can't help thinking I'd be somewhat crazy to pull the trigger. It doesn't help that my current car is nearly flawless and does so many things well. OTOH, Tesla owners have some of the highest overall satisfaction with their cars (including the Tesla owners here)

Not sure whether I want to be talked in or out of this.

[John V]

Tesla has not even remotely figured out the high-end preowned car game yet. There are plenty of unpleasant stories out there if you do a tiny bit of Googling.

I personally wouldn't do it, but that's a lot of car for $50k.

[robg]

Originally Posted by John V

Tesla has not even remotely figured out the high-end preowned car game yet. There are plenty of unpleasant stories out there if you do a tiny bit of Googling.

I personally wouldn't do it, but that's a lot of car for $50k.

For sure. I’ve read a bunch of the horror stories. It sounds pretty bad.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by robg

For sure. I’ve read a bunch of the horror stories. It sounds pretty bad.

That's probably mostly internet noise. For each horror story that gets posted, that are most likely 10-100x satisfied owners that never post. This isn't unique to Tesla -- how many times do good stories get posted on forums?

[John V]

Originally Posted by ZBB

That's probably mostly internet noise. For each horror story that gets posted, that are most likely 10-100x satisfied owners that never post. This isn't unique to Tesla -- how many times do good stories get posted on forums?

Given the Tesla following, you'd think pretty often. Their fans are, um, enthusiastic and vocal.

[robg]

Originally Posted by John V

Given the Tesla following, you'd think pretty often. Their fans are, um, enthusiastic and vocal.

Ha- yeah. Tesla forums are an unholy mix of people with long/short stock positions, environmentalists, fanboys, musk disciples and regular people just looking for help. I don’t think I’d ever join one. Plus many Tesla owners seem to have upgraded from 2004 priuses or the like so everything is automatically amazing (they don’t realize how good similarly priced competitors are).

But with any forum, there’s random noise and then there’s patterns with certain issues. The recent issues with Tesla cpo seem to be a definite pattern. And just looking at their policies/procedures , it’s kind of a miracle when things go smoothly. Given that I’m now well versed in the ins/outs I think I could navigate it, but it’s still a cluster.

If they return to a halfway customer friendly way of dealing with used cars, I think it would help me get over my hesitancy. Makes me not trust them.

[ZBB]

Can’t speak to the Tesla CPO experience since I’ve only ever bought new... I would suggest seeing what is avail locally to you and asking to look at the cars before putting the deposit down. Hopefully you will find one in good shape.

But I can speak about the Model S ownership experience. It’s a great car, but huge. Facelifted S have a center console, and most 2016s are facelifted (came out in April builds, and Tesla uses the calendar year for model years). Plenty of storage even without the center console - just not at the driver seat. I kept a small box on the floor to keep things that otherwise would go in a console (pens, tire gauge, etc). As for no shade screen on the roof, that was never a problem (and I lived in AZ most of the time I had the car) - the roof glass is shielded and tinted so there is no heat or glare problem. Tesla does sell some accessory screens that pop in if it is a problem, but I’ve never seen one at Tesla gatherings...

Bluetooth integration works well - I essentially always used my phone to listen to podcasts. The media player and steaming via Slacker and TuneIn also works well. I do wish Tesla would build in CarPlay and Android Auto to give owners a better phone intgration experience though...

I say get one.

[robg]

Originally Posted by ZBB

Can’t speak to the Tesla CPO experience since I’ve only ever bought new... I would suggest seeing what is avail locally to you and asking to look at the cars before putting the deposit down. Hopefully you will find one in good shape.

But I can speak about the Model S ownership experience. It’s a great car, but huge. Facelifted S have a center console, and most 2016s are facelifted (came out in April builds, and Tesla uses the calendar year for model years). Plenty of storage even without the center console - just not at the driver seat. I kept a small box on the floor to keep things that otherwise would go in a console (pens, tire gauge, etc). As for no shade screen on the roof, that was never a problem (and I lived in AZ most of the time I had the car) - the roof glass is shielded and tinted so there is no heat or glare problem. Tesla does sell some accessory screens that pop in if it is a problem, but I’ve never seen one at Tesla gatherings...

Bluetooth integration works well - I essentially always used my phone to listen to podcasts. The media player and steaming via Slacker and TuneIn also works well. I do wish Tesla would build in CarPlay and Android Auto to give owners a better phone intgration experience though...

I say get one.

Regarding Bluetooth integration, from what I understand you can still only do forward/back/pause. Even my old 2011 bmw allowed you to scroll through /search artist/album/playlist/etc and would show album art as well. My current car will mirror and allow full control over certain apps such as pandora via Bluetooth (including creating a station / thumbs up/down) - even without CarPlay. It’s kind of ridiculous that they have time to develop fart apps but haven’t really improved their phone integration since 2013. I know Musk hates Apple but there’s still lots of room for improvement even without CarPlay.

Even if you find a local car, they often store them offsite so you can’t even see it by walking around the lot.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by robg

Regarding Bluetooth integration, from what I understand you can still only do forward/back/pause. Even my old 2011 bmw allowed you to scroll through /search artist/album/playlist/etc and would show album art as well. My current car will mirror and allow full control over certain apps such as pandora via Bluetooth (including creating a station / thumbs up/down) - even without CarPlay. It’s kind of ridiculous that they have time to develop fart apps but haven’t really improved their phone integration since 2013. I know Musk hates Apple but there’s still lots of room for improvement even without CarPlay.

Yes -- back/forward/play/pause. But that's all I needed. It would automatically connect and start playing when I got back in the car. I really only used my podcast app (I use Overcast…). For other streaming, I would just use Slacker or occasionally Tune-In in the car. I had a handful of "favorited" Slacker searches, and the mix of music was decent...

Musk "promised" some sort of mirroring capability years ago, but he also promised more apps for the car. Vaporware...

[robg]

Originally Posted by ZBB

Yes -- back/forward/play/pause. But that's all I needed. It would automatically connect and start playing when I got back in the car. I really only used my podcast app (I use Overcast…). For other streaming, I would just use Slacker or occasionally Tune-In in the car. I had a handful of "favorited" Slacker searches, and the mix of music was decent...

Musk "promised" some sort of mirroring capability years ago, but he also promised more apps for the car. Vaporware...

I actually have grown to enjoy being able to have that level of control without having to pickup and mess with my phone. It’s a small thing but it’s one of those real head scratchers given how tesla prides themselves on being a software company and always delivering new features over the air. Sometimes I think they put the interests of the media and Wall Street ahead of regular customers. (A fart app generates clicks - decent Bluetooth integration does not)

Do they atleast let you scroll through radio stations / tracks using one of the scroll wheels on the steering wheel? Last time I checked, you couldn’t (but yet you could control your sunroof).