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Old 04-16-2021, 09:05 AM   #41
kognito
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post

The next question is how long will it last? If it's good for long enough, I think it may be worth the extra effort to apply. If I modify my application process a bit (leaving more clean up until the whole car is done), it would be a major shift towards being pro-PNS.

It actually has me rethinking the ceramic application. Hmm...
I have no scientific data, but I did my 2017 truck and the wife's 2020 fusion at about the same time 10 months ago. (within a few days) Both were treated with Iron X iron remover before coating was applied. I was surprised how much crap was in the new Ford finish, really glad I did the Iron X on it too, the truck really needed the Iron X

I used Mother's CMX ceramic coating.

Truck sits outside all the time, Fusion has a spot in the garage. The Fusion has spent the night outside maybe 2 times since doing the ceramic coating

The Fusion still "washes" with a California duster. The truck not so much. I have been able to get all the pollen off the truck with just a pass of the water hose, but it is no longer beading as nice as when first applied.

I now need to research what I have to do to the truck next . . . strip and re-apply or just re-apply
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Old 04-16-2021, 01:04 PM   #42
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Monday with a fresh coat of Sonax PNS:



The FF photo is of the roof. Note that the portion of the panel in the photo includes surfaces on three different planes while the PNS photo shows a single plane (well, none of them are actually planes because none of them are perfectly flat, but they're close enough). The FF photo shows a lot more water and the beads are more irregularly shaped than the nearly perfect circles/spheres in the PNS photo. Had PNS been on the car instead of FF for the FF photo, I don't think there would be nearly as much water, and there would not be any on the most vertical of the three .
For reference, here is the beading from the wagon roof with Zaino zfx. My opinion: much easier than even sonax. Spritz in the general location of a body panel, smear around and let dry. For a super shine, hit it with some detail spray to blend off the excess.

This is on a dirty surface after about 2wks, 500 miles and 2 days outside. I just took it at the lake house after a 250 mile drive in rain/snow mix.

I put it on all surfaces. Eliminates the need for wipers above 70mph.
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Old 04-26-2021, 09:10 AM   #43
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When washing the car, I could see it was much different (and better) as soon as the water started hitting it. While actually washing it, it felt different. It was easier to move the wash mitt. It was also weird in that the sudsy water wanted to let gravity have its way with it to a much greater degree.

Where it was really clear that something different was going on was drying the car. After rinsing, there was much less water remaining on the car. Maybe only 70% as much water?

My next drying step is to use a leaf blower to blow off as much as the remaining water as possible. That was where it was REALLY different. At the end of the blow drying stage, there was only 25% as much water left. Maybe even less. It also took less time.

After the leaf blower, I use a super absorbent large microfiber towel to dry the little remaining drops so they don't dry on the car and leave water spots. With a lot less drops to get to, I can cover the whole car faster which means fewer of what drops are there have an opportunity to dry on the surface.

The last step is to use a big waffleweave microfiber to dry off the glass surfaces, door jambs, trunk and hood area, and nooks and crannies that always seem to continue leaking water for hours. This stage took just as much time as the others. If I add the coating to some of those areas and apply a good coating on the glass, I think that will take less time and effort, but won't do anything about the never ending dripping.

The next question is how long will it last? If it's good for long enough, I think it may be worth the extra effort to apply. If I modify my application process a bit (leaving more clean up until the whole car is done), it would be a major shift towards being pro-PNS.
Second wash with Sonax PNS was yesterday. Car wasn't dirty, but had a bit of pollen and, as of yesterday morning, some noticeable dust (that I assume was from the previous day's drilling in the garage and I wanted to remove before giving it a chance to bond). It had been about 10 days and 150 miles since the first wash (140 of the miles from a round trip to Summit Point a week earlier).

I'd have to ditto everything from the first wash. I'd also add that there were very few visible bug splats on the front of the car pre-wash and post wash, it was impossible to see where they had been.

This wash also pointed out the need to get a decent coating of something on the windshield.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh (PA) View Post
For reference, here is the beading from the wagon roof with Zaino zfx. My opinion: much easier than even sonax. Spritz in the general location of a body panel, smear around and let dry. For a super shine, hit it with some detail spray to blend off the excess.

This is on a dirty surface after about 2wks, 500 miles and 2 days outside. I just took it at the lake house after a 250 mile drive in rain/snow mix.

I put it on all surfaces. Eliminates the need for wipers above 70mph.
Looks pretty nice (I missed this post earlier).

I've been running Rain-X washer fluid since the first time I had to add to the Foucs ST. This seems to be much more effective than a traditional application of regular Rain-X and since you keep reapplying with every washer activation, it never has a chance to wear off like regular Rain-X and get streaky. 35-45 mph is also usually fast enough to make the wipers unnecessary during the day and totally unnecessary at night (except when traveling under lights at low speed). The regular reapplications may also help coat the wiper blades which helps keep them from ever chattering even after they're old and wearing out.

Rain-X doesn't really seem to help a lot with bugs. I'm also curious to see if any of the other coatings may help minimize the "under lights at night" that is so bad with Rain-X.
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Old 04-26-2021, 09:50 AM   #44
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fwiw, I sonax the glass too. it's only going to do so much on the front windshield with wiper action, but it works well everywhere else.

note: the one caveat to this is that it i recommend against getting it on the wiper blades.
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Old 04-27-2021, 11:34 AM   #45
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I've never had a problem with lights and Rain-X. Are you saying it causes more glare, or something else?

I've been using the Rain-X washer fluid for a few years and... eh... it works okay, but not nearly as well as a fresh application of Rain-X.
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Old 04-27-2021, 12:16 PM   #46
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I've never had a problem with lights and Rain-X. Are you saying it causes more glare, or something else?


When they stop the wipers and go under the green traffic light around the 20 second mark, you can see what bugs me. As you pass under the light, the point of light is refracted through the drops on the windshield. It's not exactly glare as much as what is effectively a huge number of individual lights.

A perfectly timed wiper pass can occasionally work, but the combination of vehicle speed, volume of fresh raindrops, and wiper pass speed have to be a perfect combination...and even then, the wiper/vehicle/airflow/rain volume/wiper pass time duration make it impossible to clear the windshield for a lighting event.

Worst case is usually heavy drizzle/light rain in suburban neighborhoods on sidestreets. You're in the affected range of the light for a long time and if you use the wipers, there are as many drops per square inch two inches behind the wiper blades as immediately in front making the wipers worthless.

When you're not nearly underneath the lights, it's like the water isn't even there.

When you're moving fast enough or the rain is heavy enough that drops aren't clinging to the surface, it's not so bad.

It can also be a factor during the day, but polarized sunglasses nearly eliminates it as an issue.

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Old 04-27-2021, 12:21 PM   #47
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Interesting. I guess I've learned to ignore that?
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:00 PM   #48
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Interesting. I guess I've learned to ignore that?
I wonder if there's a difference in application that makes it so it doesn't happen to you?
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Old 04-27-2021, 02:13 PM   #49
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I don't think I do anything special when applying Rain-X. The only thing I really focus on is using as little of it as possible, but mostly that's so it's easy to buff out without streaks.
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Old 05-03-2021, 01:44 PM   #50
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Second wash with Sonax PNS was yesterday. Car wasn't dirty, but had a bit of pollen and, as of yesterday morning, some noticeable dust (that I assume was from the previous day's drilling in the garage and I wanted to remove before giving it a chance to bond). It had been about 10 days and 150 miles since the first wash (140 of the miles from a round trip to Summit Point a week earlier).

I'd have to ditto everything from the first wash. I'd also add that there were very few visible bug splats on the front of the car pre-wash and post wash, it was impossible to see where they had been.
Yesterday was wash #3 post Sonax PNS application. Seven days 173 miles since wash number two. Once again, the car wasn't really dirty, but was pollen covered after the garage door being open for several hours Saturday and spending most of the day sitting outside at Summit Point on Sunday (while I was going not fast enough, but hopefully learning something useful in Oscar). Most of the miles were the sunny good weather early morning and late afternoon drive to/from Summit Point yesterday. Biggest difference from the last wash was some bugs on the front end.

Water sheeting performance in the post-wash rinse and leaf blower drying were both really good. At the time, I thought may not quite as good as the earlier washes, but it's one of those things where you can't really tell if you're noticing a difference or not. I'll say that performance appears to be the same as upon initial application.

There were no cicada remains and there weren't *that* many bugs, but the ones that were there stood out. Each black speck on a bright orange background is much more noticeable than on a dark gray or dark blue background. Or, maybe, I'm just being anal with this car? (probably). All the bugs were reasonably fresh, but probably 75% of the bug remains disappeared in the pre-wash rinse. Everything else disappeared with a single pass of a sudsy wash mitt.

Something that was different this time was the product I used to wash the car. This time I used Sonax Car Wash Shampoo Concentrate. All the previous washes with this car have been with Turtle Wax Ice car wash soap, which is a wash and wax. I first tried it on the Focus ST a long time ago after bren posted something about it and I liked the results and kept using it. I think Turtle Wax is killing the Ice sub-brand/system and the soap is no longer available. I thought that as long as I'm trying the PNS, let's stick with Sonax products and see how it goes. (I also got some of their Brilliant Shine Detailer, but haven't had a chance to use, yet).

I don't know if the car wash makes a difference in what I'm looking at as PNS performance, or if it makes a difference if it will be to PNS's benefit or detriment.

Feeling like I'm really starting to get kind of silly with this, but I'm enjoying it.
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