Driven: M3 and 535xi

[FC]

Well, I learned a lot with those two drives. Here's what happened:

1. 535xi Sedan, 6-Speed, ZSP. This was meant to represent the closest thing to the potential V70R replacement but in sedan form (which one could argue puts it in a better light vs. a wagon). In short, very, VERY dissapointed. It made me appreciate how good the Volvo is. Aside from the MT, you would think the brands got reversed. The BMW was numb, very laggy, felt heavy, way too quiet and isolated. No drama at all. The engine was smooth, but even at 2.5-3krpm it felt laggy and slow to gain speed. I'm sure it's fast, but it didn't feel fast. Remember, the V70R is a 300/300 car itself, so it's no slouch. The Volvo has a more responsive engine (it runs out of breath at high rpm's, but so what? It's the family car). The 535xi didn't even make want to rev it. How frustrating. It felt like a nice appliance. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice car. If the V70R didn't exist, and I had loads of money, I'd be pumped to have that as the family car. But the Volvo feels more special (it is thanks to "R" bits), is better looking, far roomier, and insanely cheap by comparison. It's no contest. The V70R is staying - and for a long time too, because nothing in the horizon appears able to challenge it now. It handles better, feels better, has FAR better brakes, it's more responsive, etc. Not even close. That chapter is closed.

2. M3. Sadly all they had was a cabrio. Oh well. How to begin... The car IS the engine. IOW, My car and the M3 with the same engine, and it's not a question, I'd take my car. So much so, that the drive made me wonder if I should't just keep my car for a few more years. But, that engine! At sub 3krpm it's surprisingly docile. Not super torquey, but certainly more than enough. At 4 and particularly after 5krpm all hell breaks loose and the sound just gives you the willies. Nevermind the furious acceleration, the sound is simply kick-ass. The LSD is nice to have too. I accelerated off a stop making a right over a sandy patch by the right side where the ZHP's DSC would have lit up like a Xmas tree - nothing. Just took off. It felt heavy (the cab doesn't help), but was stilling willing to play. The ZHP is far more tossable and fun, though. Brakes were and felt good, unlike the 535xi. The hump on the hood is very noticeable.

3. General "newer BMW" observations: I hate the window switch locations. I struggled with the directionals at first. The seats are super narrow. I barely fit and I'm fairly thin. The dash drives me batty but 3er>5er. Despite how different they look, there is a familiarity there - it feels like a BMW. Both cars just felt like heavy BMW's.

I have learned that there really is no getting around weight. It kills fun. I also realize (and it may sound silly to those E36M3 guys) but throttle response is fun and lag isn't.

Anyhow, the M3 was fun. Great fun. But probably too ticket-friendly. I dunno. It's a lot of extra $$$ over my car. For the 55K (assuming a great deal) I could keep my ZHP and add a used 987S (I have room to park 10+ cars in my driveway garages and not block a single one, so I just need to get (my wife) over the car number issue ). For a lot less money I could (in theory) SC the ZHP, add an LSD and even Brembo brakes and still save massive amounts of cash.


BTW, if you guys need a nice sedan and don't want to spend M3 money are nuts not to pick up used ZHP's while they are still newish and now very cheap.

Sorry, this post wasn't very coherent but I'm busy at work.

[John V]

Neat.

I can say that based on my experience driving a couple 335s, I was not impressed with the turbo engine. Too much lag. And you're right, the throttle response of that engine sucks.

M3 does sound great (buddy's neighbor has one... yowza) but I can't get over the weight of the thing. Oink.

[JST]

Just to resurrect my own first impressions, which are in line with FC's:

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showth...ghlight=engine

This car is all about the engine.

[equ]

I actually really like its turn-in and handling beyond the engine... Much better sorted than the e46 zhp or the e90 zsp, on par with the porsches. I would think it's far more "tossable" than a zhp, but ymmv.

BTW, I hate to say it but "I told ya so" on the 535xi.. Many things wrong with that config compared to the M, the 5, the 35 and the xi.

[JST]

I can't really comment on turn in, since my car has been on snows since the minute I got it home.

[FC]

Originally Posted by equ

I actually really like its turn-in and handling beyond the engine... Much better sorted than the e46 zhp or the e90 zsp, on par with the porsches. I would think it's far more "tossable" than a zhp, but ymmv.

BTW, I hate to say it but "I told ya so" on the 535xi.. Many things wrong with that config compared to the M, the 5, the 35 and the xi.

You were right about the xi. That was brutal. I had such high hopes.

Hard to say on the handling. It wasn't bad. It was a cabrio, so that's what, 4000lbs, easy, and a 600+ penalty over the ZHP. You just can't hide that kind of weight. It may do what you want it to, but the ZHP felt much lighter. Perhaps a Cayman to Elise type of handling difference.

Honestly I was kind of rushed by the 2nd test-drive and the route I took didn't allow me to showcase the handling. Plus I got bad luck with traffic in the few good spots.

To be fair, I really need to drive the sedan and give it a fair shot. Tranny was very ZHP-like, meaning, good. The shifter was very . Definitely needs an upgrade.

[equ]

Wow, if you like your zhp as much as (or more) than a new e93M, other than the straight line, you should definitely keep it as it is an unbelievable bargain. I guess I loved the new M, it felt better in every way/more natural than the 330i and smoother, more comfortable and more powerful than the 987S.

I really need to drive it a few more times.

[lemming]

535xi 3950lbs.

m3 cabrio 4142 lbs.

LOL.

[FC]

Originally Posted by equ

Wow, if you like your zhp as much as (or more) than a new e93M, other than the straight line, you should definitely keep it as it is an unbelievable bargain. I guess I loved the new M, it felt better in every way/more natural than the 330i and smoother, more comfortable and more powerful than the 987S.

I really need to drive it a few more times.

Again, I need to drive the sedan. On the E46, the cabrio added something absurd like 400+ lbs.

It's still the leading contender because the odds of us having 4 cars are next to zero. The ZHP is great but it does feel weak and I am a bit bored with it. Nevermind the 6+ years.

[FC]

Originally Posted by lemming

535xi 3950lbs.

m3 cabrio 4142 lbs.

LOL.

Funny, I thought I was crazy when I drove the M3 and it felt just as heavy. Very resistant to turn. Heavy steering too, but that wasn't all. I thought the M3 sedan/coupe were 36XXlbs. That is a BIG difference from 4100lbs.

ED on a LeMans blue M3 sedan sounds pretty awesome. I just need to sort this out over the next couple of months to know whether to sell the ZHP or not. I think I will, but I'd be pissed if I later realize I shouldn't have.