Fuck Tesla

[robg]

Originally Posted by FC

What?

In other, but tangentially related news, I finally got off my ass and enabled Apple Carplay on the F80.

It's nice, and I'm happy to have it, but:

1) It's a shame I cannot dynamically get off Car Play and back to normal mode.
2) The icons are small and far a way on the F80, so I end up using the I-Drive wheel to control selections. Not bad, but not nearly as easy as having a proper screen nearby., like on the GTI.
3) It's absolutely not worth the $300/year subscription they used to charge.

For number 1, you can just click the "BMW" app icon on the carplay home screen to get back to the native interface if that's what you mean. The downside is that if you want to select phone contacts or music via the native idrive interface you wont' be able to (as far as i remember)....

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by FC

What?

In other, but tangentially related news, I finally got off my ass and enabled Apple Carplay on the F80.

It's nice, and I'm happy to have it, but:

1) It's a shame I cannot dynamically get off Car Play and back to normal mode.
2) The icons are small and far a way on the F80, so I end up using the I-Drive wheel to control selections. Not bad, but not nearly as easy as having a proper screen nearby., like on the GTI.
3) It's absolutely not worth the $300/year subscription they used to charge.

Use carplay as a second monitor and control everything with your phone. It's very good used that way.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

Here is the original tweet.

https://twitter.com/deesix/status/1420172102326374402

I've read about "accidental upgrades" through the app, though I'm confused about where the $14,100 number comes from--on my older Model 3, without autopilot, it gives me upgrade prices of $3000 to add autopilot (which now comes with all new cars, I believe) and $10000 to add "Full Self Driving," which is Elon's bullshit vaporware thing.

I don't want either, obvs, but even together that isn't $14,100.

Whatever, car subscriptions and DLC are stupid and I hate them, with the exception of wireless connectivity and map upgrades, which are actual ongoing costs, so a subscription model makes sense.

But this seems to be a plague that is spreading across the industry. Did you see the story about how Mercedes will sell you a subscription for rear wheel steering?

I believe the topic was "Those Tesla fuckers charged me five figures because someone else tapped my screen without 1) being informed that a charge would be made, 2) confirming that the charge is acceptable, 3) that the person creating the charge is authorized to do so, 4) taking any steps at all to ensure the individual being charged is both aware and agreeable to it.

Any other context, that's theft. But, you know, Tesla.

Also, not seeing how this is a subscription or DLC issue. It's just an enabling of functionality already present but disabled, or at least that's my understanding (which may be wrong?).

Somewhere in these forums, I believe I was chastised for having a negative reaction to Tesla's practice of preventing consumers the full use of the products they purchase unless they pay extra. Now, it looks like others are adopting that view as well.

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

I believe the topic was "Those Tesla fuckers charged me five figures because someone else tapped my screen without 1) being informed that a charge would be made, 2) confirming that the charge is acceptable, 3) that the person creating the charge is authorized to do so, 4) taking any steps at all to ensure the individual being charged is both aware and agreeable to it.

Any other context, that's theft. But, you know, Tesla.

Also, not seeing how this is a subscription or DLC issue. It's just an enabling of functionality already present but disabled, or at least that's my understanding (which may be wrong?).

Somewhere in these forums, I believe I was chastised for having a negative reaction to Tesla's practice of preventing consumers the full use of the products they purchase unless they pay extra. Now, it looks like others are adopting that view as well.

I guess yes, technically this is enabling a preexisting feature, which is different than DLC (though I suspect there's some software that has to be downloaded to make it work? who knows).

I am happy that Tesla charges extra for it, frankly, because it means that I don't have to pay for it.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by robg

Hmmm- as much as I believe that Tesla engages in shady business practices, I have a hard time believing this one. Isn't regular autopilot now standard with the only option being FSD?

Yep.

Something is being misrepresented here. The upgrades are in the app, not in the car directly. As JST said, there have been unintentional purchases in the app - but you can enable specific features by sliding a switch to “on” (and I’m always careful on that screen)

[clyde]

Originally Posted by FC

What?

In other, but tangentially related news, I finally got off my ass and enabled Apple Carplay on the F80.

It's nice, and I'm happy to have it, but:

1) It's a shame I cannot dynamically get off Car Play and back to normal mode.
2) The icons are small and far a way on the F80, so I end up using the I-Drive wheel to control selections. Not bad, but not nearly as easy as having a proper screen nearby., like on the GTI.
3) It's absolutely not worth the $300/year subscription they used to charge.

Originally Posted by Nick M3

Use carplay as a second monitor and control everything with your phone. It's very good used that way.

Does that mean the screens are mirrored? I don't think that's possible on Chevy and Toyota implementations (but I think Carplay has features taht manufacturers can choose to enable/disable).

Second screen stuff are things like the phone will only display turn by turn lists when switching the phone to a navigation app and the map display only showing on the car's display, or getting a simplified view of artist, song, like, and << >> with Spotify, etc. No mirroring or anything like that.

[robg]

Originally Posted by clyde

Does that mean the screens are mirrored? I don't think that's possible on Chevy and Toyota implementations (but I think Carplay has features taht manufacturers can choose to enable/disable).

Second screen stuff are things like the phone will only display turn by turn lists when switching the phone to a navigation app and the map display only showing on the car's display, or getting a simplified view of artist, song, like, and << >> with Spotify, etc. No mirroring or anything like that.

Correct- CarPlay will not mirror any app you have open...only specific apps that are enabled for CarPlay. Also as of a few versions ago, you can now use the phone without affecting what's on the screen. For example if you are using Google maps to navigate and your passenger opens up a non carplay app to use it, Google Maps will still be displayed on your car's screen.

[robg]

Originally Posted by JST

I guess yes, technically this is enabling a preexisting feature, which is different than DLC (though I suspect there's some software that has to be downloaded to make it work? who knows).

I am happy that Tesla charges extra for it, frankly, because it means that I don't have to pay for it.

Not familiar w/ the term "DLC", but I think the capabilitiy that we are discussing here is "Feature over the air". A bunch of auto companies (including Tesla) are already doing this. For example, with Porsche on some models (like the Taycan), you can add "Innodrive" (which I think includes lane centering and a few other things) if you already have adaptive cruise control. I think they give you an option to pay for it for a limited time (say you just want it for a month), or you can pay to activate it permanently

For the most part, I think I'm ok with this approach given that there's an option to enable it permanently (without an ongoing subscription). With more software enabled features, it kind of seems inevitable to me that automakers would take this approach for more and more things. For any mass produced product, you ideally want to limit the physical build permutations. The downside is that whatever can be enabled over the air can be taken away over the air as well...something Tesla has demonstrated in the past.

I get the objection that "if my car has the hardware for a feature it should automatically include all the features that could be enabled by that hardware". But I just dont think that's realistic given how much depends on software these days... there is of course R&D that goes into building any feature, and we already pay for software / additional features on our computers and phones. Howevever the features that automaters are currently offering over the air do seem a bit weak (with BMW's old carplay subscription being the worst example).

[JST]

Originally Posted by robg

Not familiar w/ the term "DLC", but I think the capabilitiy that we are discussing here is "Feature over the air". A bunch of auto companies (including Tesla) are already doing this. For example, with Porsche on some models (like the Taycan), you can add "Innodrive" (which I think includes lane centering and a few other things) if you already have adaptive cruise control. I think they give you an option to pay for it for a limited time (say you just want it for a month), or you can pay to activate it permanently

For the most part, I think I'm ok with this approach given that there's an option to enable it permanently (without an ongoing subscription). With more software enabled features, it kind of seems inevitable to me that automakers would take this approach for more and more things. For any mass produced product, you ideally want to limit the physical build permutations. The downside is that whatever can be enabled over the air can be taken away over the air as well...something Tesla has demonstrated in the past.

I get the objection that "if my car has the hardware for a feature it should automatically include all the features that could be enabled by that hardware". But I just dont think that's realistic given how much depends on software these days... there is of course R&D that goes into building any feature, and we already pay for software / additional features on our computers and phones. Howevever the features that automaters are currently offering over the air do seem a bit weak (with BMW's old carplay subscription being the worst example).

It's funny, I once litigated (against) a class action based on this theory of "if it's got the hardware, I should be able to use it without paying more." We won that case, though it was a specialized field that isn't generally applicable.

DLC in this case is a reference to "downloaded content" on video games, just a shorthand for features available OTA.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by FC

What?

In other, but tangentially related news, I finally got off my ass and enabled Apple Carplay on the F80.

It's nice, and I'm happy to have it, but:

1) It's a shame I cannot dynamically get off Car Play and back to normal mode.
2) The icons are small and far a way on the F80, so I end up using the I-Drive wheel to control selections. Not bad, but not nearly as easy as having a proper screen nearby., like on the GTI.
3) It's absolutely not worth the $300/year subscription they used to charge.

For number 1 you can go to manage devices (or it says something similar to that) and switch it back to BMW if I remember correctly for idrive 6

For our BMW's they all have idrive 7 and getting car play is super easy plus the screens are bigger and they are full screen so it is an easier and a better set up.

As far as the $300 a year, that was very disturbing, right before my previous 5er came due for that charge BMW stopped doing it a month before, I would have paid it but am happy they stopped it.

Also one quick thing you might or might not know, one quick press of the talk button on the steering wheel gets you BMW, one long press gets you Siri.