Updated FC waffling thread: Sedan talk

[FC]

I'll try to keep it short, though I'm sure I will fail.

As I've mentioned elsewhere, given my current car needs/use, I have to suspend the dream of a sportscar for a few years and will probably just replace the ZHP with a new(er) car that has an LSD, more power, more torque while trying to minimize the inevitable weight gain.

Needless to say the front runner is an M3. The other candidates are a GXP or (and this is a long shot), a CTS-V.

The timing for the purchase is anywhere from nowish (if I score a killer deal on a leftover/used '08 M3) or as late as Fall of 2010 if we do ED on a new M3 and we don't want to leave our infant son at less than 1-year to go on vacation.

So, on to the options (with a pretty hard limit of $55K)...

Spring '09

1) Spend $45-50K on a new/lightly used '08 M3 that is already a year old and likely not in my choice of color/options.

2) Buy G8 GXP for ~$35K

Spring '10

1) ED on an '10 M3 for as close to 55K as I can get it. Our son would be only 10 months old.

2) Lightly used/new G8 GXP for $30-35K.

Fall '10

1) ED on a '11 M3 for as close to 55K as I can (though I suspect by then it will be pretty hard to go below $58K).

2) Lightly used CTS-V for ~50K(?)

Now, in general, here are the +/- to the cars

M3
+Drool-worthy engine note
+BMW-ness (feel, tuning, refinement, vanity factor, fit/finish, etc)
+Potential ED experience (this is huge for me)
-Price
-Depreciation
-Reliability/cost beyond warranty

G8 GXP
+Price
+Roominess
+Low end torque
+Ownership costs beyond warranty
-Weight
-Lack of refinement
-Pontiacness

CTS-V
+Silly performance (power/torque/brakes/etc)
+Ownership costs beyond warranty
-Weight
-Price

Unlike with the ZHP, I don't have to commit to keeping whatever car I get beyond the warranty period, but it's a safe bet I'd want to keep it for 4 years and I'd like to have the option to keep it for longer all while not taking an acid bath upon resale.

Thoughts?

FYI... I'm not considering the 335i because for the money, I rather keep my ZHP or get a G8 GXP. Don't care for an E90 330i/328i. Also, it's pretty much a given that I won't have the ZHP past Thanksgivign of '09 as my winter tires (rears) are shot and they have lived thorugh 6 winters. And I'm not about to drop $600+ for new winter tires only to sell them for nothing a few months later.

[JST]

Drive the GXP; that might answer your question there. If it's great, buy one now. If not, poke around for a killer deal on an '08 M3, but if you don't find one do ED next year.

You should add the S4 to your list; it should be out later this year/early next year, and the reviews so far from the EU have been quite positive.

I also wouldn't completely write off the 335; a year or two old 335 can be had for under 30K, and it's 80 percent the car the M3 is for 50 percent of the price.

EDIT: For me, the CTS-V is just excessive. Lovely car, but without having driven either I have to believe that the GXP is a better fit for my needs.

[FC]

I'll piggyback onto this waffling thread...

The whole Jeep/SUV thing has confirmed in my mind that as much as I rather not, the V70R should be replaced with an upscale-ish SUV in the future. But the V70R is such a screaming deal for us to keep, that we are better off adding a cheap SUV for a few years and then trade them both for some largish SUV. By then the kids will have little buddies they will want to bring along, and a 3rd row would probably be nice. A diesel GL would be great. Since the new plan includes a fun sedan, I have no problems with a biggish SUV I'll avoid driving as much as possible. This also opens the door to a potential weekend car being merely a 3rd car as opposed to a 4th car.

[ff]

Without having driven any of your 3 choices, here are my totally uninformed opinions.

M3 >> Excessively expensive, money pit after warranty runs out.
CTS-V >> Excessively heavy and powerful. Kind of a ridiculous car in that trim, IMO.
G8 GXP >> Nicely priced, cavernous interior with limo-like rear seat legroom, but probably also excessively heavy. Probably poor resale. And yeah, it's filled to the brim with "Pontiacness". But that wouldn't keep me from putting it on my short list of cars to seriously look at.

Like JST said, I would probably look for a CPO 335i, and try to steal one for ~$30K.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by FC

Spring '10

2) Lightly used/new G8 GXP for $30-35K.

Boy there were a lot of words...anyway...

A year from now, I wouldn't be all that surprised if an '09 G8 GXP with lowish miles could be had in the (very) low $20s. The problem will be finding them. Even if Pontiac still exists there may not be a '10 G8 GXP. If that's the case, who knows on prices. Could be a good bit lower, could be as much or more than new now.

I'm thinking of adding a used 335i to my list. If I'd been smart, I would have bought JST's when I found it.

[FC]

Originally Posted by JST

Drive the GXP; that might answer your question there. If it's great, buy one now. If not, poke around for a killer deal on an '08 M3, but if you don't find one do ED next year.

You should add the S4 to your list; it should be out later this year/early next year, and the reviews so far from the EU have been quite positive.

I also wouldn't completely write off the 335; a year or two old 335 can be had for under 30K, and it's 80 percent the car the M3 is for 50 percent of the price.

EDIT: For me, the CTS-V is just excessive. Lovely car, but without having driven either I have to believe that the GXP is a better fit for my needs.

This goes in response to ff's reply as well...

I see your point re: the CTS-V. It really is too much (money/power/fuel use). But most importantly, I can't get over the 4300lbs+. The 4100-4200 M3 cab I drove felt very fat. Anyway, like I said, highly unlikely.

The thing about this car purchase is that I don't want to be 100% pragamtic about it. I was supposed to be getting the Boxster I wanted since college. Life changes, I get that. I must give it up and get another sedan. No sweat. But I do want to be thrilled and excited about it like I was with the ZHP.

The 335i doesn't do that for me. Maybe after I drive it it will. But the combination of the ZHP being far better looking and the 535xi I drove not thrillign me AT ALL, makes me not very excited about the prospect of a 335i. But I certainly will drive it. The S4 is an intersting thought. I'll have to give it a try (but isn't it pretty expensive?).

The G8 GXP doesn't thrill me on paper, but its great value and gobs of torque may convince me. Though I suspect I will be bugging my wife about a weekend car after a couple of years.

The M3 is the best fit, but it's just expensive enough to make me pause.

[JST]

Originally Posted by FC

This goes in response to ff's reply as well...

I see your point re: the CTS-V. It really is too much (money/power/fuel use). But most importantly, I can't get over the 4300lbs+. The 4100-4200 M3 cab I drove felt very fat. Anyway, like I said, highly unlikely.

The thing about this car purchase is that I don't want to be 100% pragamtic about it. I was supposed to be getting the Boxster I wanted since college. Life changes, I get that. I must give it up and get another sedan. No sweat. But I do want to be thrilled and excited about it like I was with the ZHP.

The 335i doesn't do that for me. Maybe after I drive it it will. But the combination of the ZHP being far better looking and the 535xi I drove not thrillign me AT ALL, makes me not very excited about the prospect of a 335i. But I certainly will drive it. The S4 is an intersting thought. I'll have to give it a try (but isn't it pretty expensive?).

The G8 GXP doesn't thrill me on paper, but its great value and gobs of torque may convince me. Though I suspect I will be bugging my wife about a weekend car after a couple of years.

The M3 is the best fit, but it's just expensive enough to make me pause.

I think the S4 will continue to be positioned in price somewhere between the 335 and the M3, though it's performance is probably closer to the 335. The appealing thing about the new S4 is that it supposedly has much better fuel use than the outgoing V8 version.

I suspect that the E90 335 will be a much more interesting car than the 535xi. It's very fast, and it has a huge lump of torque down low that even the M3 can't match. Compared to the M3, though, it does feel a little bloodless. Still, if you (unlike me) can convince the other stakeholders in your life that having more than 2 cars makes sense, I'd think long and hard about a 335 + Boxster S combo, which could probably be had for something very close to the money you'd spend on a new M3.

[FC]

Originally Posted by clyde

Boy there were a lot of words...anyway...

A year from now, I wouldn't be all that surprised if an '09 G8 GXP with lowish miles could be had in the (very) low $20s. The problem will be finding them. Even if Pontiac still exists there may not be a '10 G8 GXP. If that's the case, who knows on prices. Could be a good bit lower, could be as much or more than new now.

I'm thinking of adding a used 335i to my list. If I'd been smart, I would have bought JST's when I found it.

Well, let me say that if I don't buy anything in the next 10 months and a G8 GXP can be had for $25K, the car would have to be a total hunk of shit for me to not pull the trigger on that.

I'm in no rush right now other than that $7500 discount on '08 M3 temporarily pushign prices down a bti more than normal. If that time period goes by, I will likely enjoy my ZHP through the summer, sell it in the fall (as well as buy a cheap SUV), and try to make it through the winter without being too bummed out.

[FC]

Originally Posted by JST

I think the S4 will continue to be positioned in price somewhere between the 335 and the M3, though it's performance is probably closer to the 335. The appealing thing about the new S4 is that it supposedly has much better fuel use than the outgoing V8 version.

I suspect that the E90 335 will be a much more interesting car than the 535xi. It's very fast, and it has a huge lump of torque down low that even the M3 can't match. Compared to the M3, though, it does feel a little bloodless. Still, if you (unlike me) can convince the other stakeholders in your life that having more than 2 cars makes sense, I'd think long and hard about a 335 + Boxster S combo, which could probably be had for something very close to the money you'd spend on a new M3.

I still think adding a roadster is in the cards, it will just need to wait a few more years due to lack of ability to use it/needing a crappy SUV/not wanting to spend too much in cars so soon. But I'd love to get a 4y.o. '09 987S II, for example.

Anyhow, it sounds like I need to drive a 335i and a G8 GXP soon. Are GXP's on dealer lots already?

[Theo]

Originally Posted by FC

Anyhow, it sounds like I need to drive a 335i and a G8 GXP soon. Are GXP's on dealer lots already?

The local pontiac dealer closed but I looked at a dealer up north last weekend and they did not have one yet. There are vidio's starting to appear on youTube though so I know they are out there.