(My wife's waffle...) New Volvo V60R/V70R or Used BMW 540i?

[TD]

Originally Posted by JST

Found your car:

http://www.ebizautos.com/passportbmw...es/540i-Sedan/

ROFL.

I just sent that link to my wife BEFORE seeing your post.

I'm going through the local dealers websites.

So far, that's the only one.

But I haven't hit Sterling, Arlington or Tate's websites yet. Fairfax, VOB, and Tisher had squat.

BTW, Passport also has an '00 M5 for $36K and change.

[FC]

I'd take the 540iT because you do not have severe winters and don't seem troubled by the fuel economy. Those are the only things stopping me from getting one when we need a full-size family vehicle.

[TD]

Originally Posted by Fernando

I'd take the 540iT because you do not have severe winters and don't seem troubled by the fuel economy. Those are the only things stopping me from getting one when we need a full-size family vehicle.

I'd only take a 540iT if I felt no qualms about throwing away an extra $9K on a tranny swap.

No stick, no sale.

And my wife may actually be more adament about this point than I am. She will not consider an automatic. Ask her and the manual tranny is more important than what wheels are applying the power (FWD, RWD or AWD), how much power it has or if it's a sedan or wagon. No stick- forgetaboutit.

We turned down a really, really, really good deal on my dad's '00 528i (more or less free) because it was a slushie. No other reason.

[Rob]

It really depends on what you want. You aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. The V70 is a big, heavy car with a lot of useful space. I won't waste time disagreeing with ff about the capacity and usefulness of a wagon b/c you already have one and presumably have your own opinion.

The V70 has been a great car for us. We have overloaded it with wood, carried apartments worth of stuff in it, had visiting kids get a kick out of riding backwards, and it has been to the dealer exactly twice after delivery. The first time was for some emission recall I think. The second time was for a failed mass air sensor (which would have stranded the wife if it hadn't happened on her way out of the subdivision). We have no complaints.

But I also don't have any illusions about what the car is. It's a big, heavy, nose heavy car with fwd, no power and a horrible clutch. It doesn't handle, it wallows. The R version will change a lot of that. Certainly, there will be more power. But it will still be a big, heavy, nose heavy, fwd car (I don't know for certain that the awd is biased to the front, but I assume it is - just like all the other fwd car companies that dive into awd).

The 540 is a small (in comparison) car that handles well, has a lot of power, is refined, and will carry maybe 25% of what you can put in the wagon. It will be nowhere close for convenience as a family hauler, but it will be way more fun to drive. If I remember correctly, the 540 is not all that well balanced, either.

If it were me, I would recognize that the wife has to drive it every day and let her decide. After having the wagon (just for the dogs), it would be hard for me to push for making the family car smaller b/c I would enjoy driving it more when I did drive it.

[JST]

Originally Posted by rwg

It really depends on what you want. You aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here. The V70 is a big, heavy car with a lot of useful space. I won't waste time disagreeing with ff about the capacity and usefulness of a wagon b/c you already have one and presumably have your own opinion.

The V70 has been a great car for us. We have overloaded it with wood, carried apartments worth of stuff in it, had visiting kids get a kick out of riding backwards, and it has been to the dealer exactly twice after delivery. The first time was for some emission recall I think. The second time was for a failed mass air sensor (which would have stranded the wife if it hadn't happened on her way out of the subdivision). We have no complaints.

But I also don't have any illusions about what the car is. It's a big, heavy, nose heavy car with fwd, no power and a horrible clutch. It doesn't handle, it wallows. The R version will change a lot of that. Certainly, there will be more power. But it will still be a big, heavy, nose heavy, fwd car (I don't know for certain that the awd is biased to the front, but I assume it is - just like all the other fwd car companies that dive into awd).

The 540 is a small (in comparison) car that handles well, has a lot of power, is refined, and will carry maybe 25% of what you can put in the wagon. It will be nowhere close for convenience as a family hauler, but it will be way more fun to drive. If I remember correctly, the 540 is not all that well balanced, either.

If it were me, I would recognize that the wife has to drive it every day and let her decide. After having the wagon (just for the dogs), it would be hard for me to push for making the family car smaller b/c I would enjoy driving it more when I did drive it.

Actually, while the V70 is a pretty big car, it's also surprisingly light for its size. The V70R is only 3600 lbs, compared with 3800 plus for the 540.

The 540 isn't badly balanced; the big knock against the 540 is that it has recirc ball steering, which is sluggish and lacks feel compared to BMW's rack and pinion units. Compared to the Volvo, though, the 540 has outstanding steering, esp. with the 2K2+ M steering wheel. The shift throws on the 540 are also a tad long, but it has typical BMW light shift feel.

The more I think about it, the more I think that if a) you don't mind having separate snow tires, and b) you don't mind forgoing the wagon's space, the 540 is the ticket. That car at Passport is even the right color, aside from the ass-looking pinstripes.

Has Mrs. TD driven a V70R? Honestly, having her drive the V70R and the 540 back-to-back may answer the question.

EDIT: Also, the 540 at Passport has folding rear seats, which is nice.

[TD]

We both drove an S60R last Saturday. But neither of us has driven a V70R. We both acknowledge we need to find one to drive to accurately compare. Even if it's a slushie.

BTW, regarding the S60R, unlike our previous impressions (means yours, JST, and mine), my wife said that she could only see taking the suspension out of "Advanced" on those rare occasions that she took our son on a "nap drive" Otherwise, it's fine. No stiffer than my M3 in her opinion.

And I didn't really notice the steering boost at low speeds this time although my wife did. I also didn't really mind the engine note either. Maybe I really just wasn't paying close enough attention.

I ended up really liking the car. Comfortable, capable, fast, firm, aesthetically pleasing and somewhat reasonably priced. It seemed like a go.

But I can't exactly knock the 540i idea either.

And that one at Passport is my leading contender. I had noticed the folding rear seats and that would be a huge plus for the family truckster.

[JST]

Originally Posted by TD

We both drove an S60R last Saturday. But neither of us has driven a V70R. We both acknowledge we need to find one to drive to accurately compare. Even if it's a slushie.

BTW, regarding the S60R, unlike our previous impressions (means yours, JST, and mine), my wife said that she could only see taking the suspension out of "Advanced" on those rare occasions that she took our son on a "nap drive" Otherwise, it's fine. No stiffer than my M3 in her opinion.

And I didn't really notice the steering boost at low speeds this time although my wife did. I also didn't really mind the engine note either. Maybe I really just wasn't paying close enough attention.

I ended up really liking the car. Comfortable, capable, fast, firm, aesthetically pleasing and somewhat reasonably priced. It seemed like a go.

But I can't exactly knock the 540i idea either.

And that one at Passport is my leading contender. I had noticed the folding rear seats and that would be a huge plus for the family truckster.

Of course, the thing that occurred to me when we were looking at Focii is that folding seats are essentially useless if you have (in your case) two child seats in the back--you can only use them if the kid(s) aren't with you and you want to go to the trouble of taking the kiddie seats out.

[FC]

Originally Posted by TD

I'd only take a 540iT if I felt no qualms about throwing away an extra $9K on a tranny swap.

No stick, no sale.

And my wife may actually be more adament about this point than I am. She will not consider an automatic. Ask her and the manual tranny is more important than what wheels are applying the power (FWD, RWD or AWD), how much power it has or if it's a sedan or wagon. No stick- forgetaboutit.

We turned down a really, really, really good deal on my dad's '00 528i (more or less free) because it was a slushie. No other reason.

Doh! I forgot we were talking about a 540i sedan. My bad. I should have known (or at least read more carefully).

Well, between a 540i and a V70R, I'd have to go with the Volvo. I'm with rwg on this one. With only two cars, and one of them a 3-series, the cargo space of the V70R could REALLY be nice to have many times a year. Volvo's are GREAT family wagons.

We'd like to go from our Saabaru straight to a diesel ML, but they will be way too expensive (especially as configured) to be able to afford them so soon (if we have kids as soon as we would like to). So as a stop-gap family car we'll look at used Outback 3.0's and used V70R's.

[Rob]

Originally Posted by JST

Actually, while the V70 is a pretty big car, it's also surprisingly light for its size. The V70R is only 3600 lbs, compared with 3800 plus for the 540.

The 540 isn't badly balanced; the big knock against the 540 is that it has recirc ball steering, which is sluggish and lacks feel compared to BMW's rack and pinion units. Compared to the Volvo, though, the 540 has outstanding steering, esp. with the 2K2+ M steering wheel. The shift throws on the 540 are also a tad long, but it has typical BMW light shift feel.

The more I think about it, the more I think that if a) you don't mind having separate snow tires, and b) you don't mind forgoing the wagon's space, the 540 is the ticket. That car at Passport is even the right color, aside from the ass-looking pinstripes.

Has Mrs. TD driven a V70R? Honestly, having her drive the V70R and the 540 back-to-back may answer the question.

EDIT: Also, the 540 at Passport has folding rear seats, which is nice.

Some cars disguise their weight. Like my V. Some cars do not. Like my V70. It's a heavy car that wallows. The R suspension may be better at disguising it.

I don't remember the weight balance of the 540 for certain, but I remember noticing that it was way off from 50/50. The 530 was close to 50/50 and the 540 wasn't, iirc. I am pulling this from comparisons when my dad was looking at them and that was probably three or four years ago, so I suppose I could not remember correctly. Can't find the balance on the website anymore I bet.

But the number doesn't mean anything. The driving feel does. The 540 will drive better than the station wagon, I am sure. It just won't carry as much stuff.

[TD]

The R does not wallow.

It doesn't feel light. But it sure doesn't wallow.