Looking for Something Impractical $8-12k - Page 2

bren · 02-03-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biggins

If none of these cars on my test drive lineup pan out, I'll keep that in mind bren/clyde.

Test drive? Oh, wait, you don't have a trailer?

Biggins · 03-02-2012, 03:28 PM

I'm still not sold on anything yet, but I'm hoping to find something before Memorial Day. I recently tested an MR2 Spyder and a Solstice GXP. I've also seen that early Boxster prices might fall into my range.

Spyder- I liked it, but the clutch on this one felt well worn. The car had 117k miles which does not scare me away, but the car felt like it had a hard 117k miles on it if that makes sense.

Solstice GXP- Wow. This car really surprised me. It was VERY fast and handled quite well. I REALLY liked it! Though I really liked this car, I had a list of things I thought were dumb:
1. WTF were they thinking with the top?!?!? I'm sure I *could* get used to putting it up and down, but it is a huge chore on this car.
2. The interior quality is just awful.
3. The wheels are atrocious (chrome, had to be anvils, and why 18s?)
4. Price is slightly out of reach
That said, I need to drive a Solstice/Sky non-turbo because they are more in my price range, but they will still have my three complaints above.

lupinsea · 03-05-2012, 02:10 PM

I picked up an '07 Miata (3rd gen) with the LSD, 6 spd manual, and 17" rims for $11,500 recently in a private party sale. It had 54k on the clock and but for a nick in one wheel and a scratch on a side mirror was in excellent condition inside and out.

I know you can get cheaper NCs (3rd gen Miatas) if you're flexible on milage.

RE the NCs, some info:

Vs. older Miatae, the NCs have 20% more power and 20% more torque than the NBs*
It's definitely noticable and the car feels zippy enough that I didn't miss the acceleration rom my 330i ZHP one single bit.
The chassis of the NC is ~50% stiffer than the NBs
The engine is further back in the NC's chassis and lower than in the NBs.
The soft top is a "Z" fold design so it covers itself when folded down.
The soft top on the NCs have a single central latch point.
You can drop the soft tops without getting out of the car, ditto for putting it up (unlike the Solstice).
Very little wind buffeting in the car with the top down . . . just enough.
The NCs are available with a folding hard top, it adds 80 lb. but they are very simple and reliable.
The "Suspension Package" is only good for the LSD as the ride and handling isn't much different than stock suspension.
The NC suspension is thought to be quite soft for a Miata. "I" think it's "fine" for a daily driver like how I'm using my Miata. That said, a set of shocks, springs, and sways is said to simply transform the car.
The NC is more mature all around than the NB and NAs. I appreciate the extra refinement. The interiors are much nicer. Though everything is still hard plastic which I'm cool with.
Fintal drive ratio is the same for both the 5 spd and 6 spd manual. So top gear is the same RPM for both on the freeway (3000 rpm @ 60mph, 3500 rpm @ 70mph and 4000 rpm @ 80 mph).
Because of this, a lot of guys just get the 5 spd manual since you shift out of 1st on the 6 spd really quickly.
I got the 6 spd, however, because I wanted a bit more gearing options once the car was underway. I love it.
The automatic is said to be VERY good in these car and has steering wheel shifters, it also has MUCH lower cruising RPMs than either manual.
The NCs use a timing chain that is good for the life of the engine (instead of the timing belts on the NA and NB cars).

From a purely bang-for-the-buck stand point it will probably be tough to beat an NB Miata (which I used to own). Their prices are dropping pretty low. But get an 01+ if you do. That was the last time the interior was updated and I think there was some engine improvements.

But I love the NC.

If you're interested in the NCs I can supply more info, including what features were on what cars.

* That is, 20% more vs. the "regular" NBs. The Mazdaspeed Miata NBs have a touch more power than the NCs, IIRC.

John V · 03-05-2012, 03:27 PM

It's really hard to beat the early NC Miatas for fun per dollar ratio. I would argue that an S2000 is in that ballpark as well. They do exist around the 10k mark, but I don't know how nice of a car you get for that $10k.

lupinsea · 03-06-2012, 02:54 PM

I was considering the S2000s . . . briefly.

A few things with the S2000 vs. NC Miata deliberations in my head (random pros and cons):

I like the S2000's very taught, sporty styling. It looks very precise and chiseled, particularly the way the broad, flat, front fenders wrap around and over the front tires. And the tight wheel-to-fender gaps. Even after 12 years it's still an eye catching design that says "sports car!" and I think it looks better than any of the three generations of Miata.
The S2000 acceleration numbers (vs. the NC) are a plus in its direction.
I think the S2000's have a greater appeal to the boy-racer crowd. . . it makes me wonder how much the cars have been beat on by their owners. I imagine there's a higher percentage of S2000's that have been driven hard than there are Miatas. Especially now that they've been out of production for the last several years and cars in my price range are also in the price range of yahoos.
That same boy-racer image kind of rubs me the wrong ways. . . same reason I am turned off by the STi and Evo while at the same time being attracted to them.
Not digg'n the digital instruments of the S2000. I prefer the Miata's simple analog layout. Which is funny because when I was younger (early teenage years) I though my mom's Lincoln Continental's digital dash and speedo was the coolest thing ever.
It seems somewhat "dumb" to get an NC Miata when I could get an S2000 that has a bit more cache and performance than the Miata for probably similar price.
I appreciate the forgiving nature of the Miata's chassis, where as I've heard a number of stories of the S2000's and their snap oversteer and other issues (though, mostly with the AP1 cars).
I don't think the S2000's folding top is as elegant or simple as the Miata's top.
I'm not sure I want as "intense" a ride as the S2000 offers, especially in a daily driver.
I appreciate that the Miata weighs ~400 lb. less than the S2000.
All S2000's come with an LSD and 6 spd manual, standard. Where as with the Miata, you have to "find" one that has the Suspension Package to get the LSD.
The S2000 seems like it would be a more expensive car to maintain and repair since I'm betting parts are more expensive. And will get harder and harder to come by the further out of production it is. Miatas have a rep for being cheap with parts and consumables. They've made a lot of Miatas, and are in fact still making the NCs.
I've had a Miata in the past and loved it. The NC seems like a continuation of what I loved about my old Miata . . . just a little more grown up, modern and updated.
The whole V-Tech, yo! thing with the S2000. I know the '04+ cars have a bit more torque and don't quite have the same "on-off" character of the early S2000s, but it seems like that would be a very annoying power delivery for the engine where you're either "on it" or not. With the NC's engine, while it doesn't have a tone of power, what it does have feels very linear.
The Miata just seems like such a happy car when it's being run hard and wrung out. It's like every time I get in it and drive it the car has a "come, play with me" feel to it. Very fun, regardless of performance numbers.
The Miata has also been very easy to live with.

Ultimately, as appealing as the S2000 is I just couldn't pull the trigger. It's not me.

lupinsea · 03-06-2012, 03:07 PM

So.... Out of curiosity, I punched up the S2000s in Edmunds.com.

Not sure if it's a priority but as of the '04 model year there was no passenger airbag shut off switch. So, it's not particularly well set up for hauling a kid around with you.

Otherwise, prices seem good (per Edmunds TMV suggestions).

2004 S2000 w/ 96k miles in "clean" condition
$10k private party, $11k dealer

2002 S2000 w/ 120k miles in "clean" condition
$6100 private party, $7500 dealer

wdc330i · 03-08-2012, 12:46 PM

here you go:

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...871849470.html

Edit: never mind. auto.

John V · 03-08-2012, 01:27 PM

The more I think about it, Chris, I think you need to go buy a cheap old NA / NB Miata and throw some coilovers and wider wheels / tires at it. You'd be way under your target cost and you would have something incredibly fun to drive every day.

equ · 03-08-2012, 05:43 PM

I'd go with Lup on this one. His numbers seem hard to beat. A $10k s2000? No, thanks.

Biggins · 03-09-2012, 12:08 PM

Thank you lup & everyone for your insights. I have two test drives scheduled tomorrow (non-turbo Solstice and an '06 Miata/MX5). I've eliminated BMW roadsters from my list. I've driven and autocrossed an S2000 (once), but the ones I've seen in my price range seem well used. I plan to make a decision by the end of the month, preferably sooner. It's down to the NC Miata, Solstice (with that dumb top design), and S2000.

03-05-2012, 02:10 PM	#13
lupinsea Jeeped Join Date: Sep 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Modified Jeep Tj and '07 Miata Location: Seattle Posts: 10,214	I picked up an '07 Miata (3rd gen) with the LSD, 6 spd manual, and 17" rims for $11,500 recently in a private party sale. It had 54k on the clock and but for a nick in one wheel and a scratch on a side mirror was in excellent condition inside and out. I know you can get cheaper NCs (3rd gen Miatas) if you're flexible on milage. RE the NCs, some info: Vs. older Miatae, the NCs have 20% more power and 20% more torque than the NBs* It's definitely noticable and the car feels zippy enough that I didn't miss the acceleration rom my 330i ZHP one single bit. The chassis of the NC is ~50% stiffer than the NBs The engine is further back in the NC's chassis and lower than in the NBs. The soft top is a "Z" fold design so it covers itself when folded down. The soft top on the NCs have a single central latch point. You can drop the soft tops without getting out of the car, ditto for putting it up (unlike the Solstice). Very little wind buffeting in the car with the top down . . . just enough. The NCs are available with a folding hard top, it adds 80 lb. but they are very simple and reliable. The "Suspension Package" is only good for the LSD as the ride and handling isn't much different than stock suspension. The NC suspension is thought to be quite soft for a Miata. "I" think it's "fine" for a daily driver like how I'm using my Miata. That said, a set of shocks, springs, and sways is said to simply transform the car. The NC is more mature all around than the NB and NAs. I appreciate the extra refinement. The interiors are much nicer. Though everything is still hard plastic which I'm cool with. Fintal drive ratio is the same for both the 5 spd and 6 spd manual. So top gear is the same RPM for both on the freeway (3000 rpm @ 60mph, 3500 rpm @ 70mph and 4000 rpm @ 80 mph). Because of this, a lot of guys just get the 5 spd manual since you shift out of 1st on the 6 spd really quickly. I got the 6 spd, however, because I wanted a bit more gearing options once the car was underway. I love it. The automatic is said to be VERY good in these car and has steering wheel shifters, it also has MUCH lower cruising RPMs than either manual. The NCs use a timing chain that is good for the life of the engine (instead of the timing belts on the NA and NB cars). From a purely bang-for-the-buck stand point it will probably be tough to beat an NB Miata (which I used to own). Their prices are dropping pretty low. But get an 01+ if you do. That was the last time the interior was updated and I think there was some engine improvements. But I love the NC. If you're interested in the NCs I can supply more info, including what features were on what cars. * That is, 20% more vs. the "regular" NBs. The Mazdaspeed Miata NBs have a touch more power than the NCs, IIRC. __________________ . My website "Jeep is the only true American sports car" - Enzo Ferrari Or something to that effect. Last edited by lupinsea; 03-06-2012 at 03:11 PM.

03-06-2012, 02:54 PM	#15
lupinsea Jeeped Join Date: Sep 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Modified Jeep Tj and '07 Miata Location: Seattle Posts: 10,214	I was considering the S2000s . . . briefly. A few things with the S2000 vs. NC Miata deliberations in my head (random pros and cons): I like the S2000's very taught, sporty styling. It looks very precise and chiseled, particularly the way the broad, flat, front fenders wrap around and over the front tires. And the tight wheel-to-fender gaps. Even after 12 years it's still an eye catching design that says "sports car!" and I think it looks better than any of the three generations of Miata. The S2000 acceleration numbers (vs. the NC) are a plus in its direction. I think the S2000's have a greater appeal to the boy-racer crowd. . . it makes me wonder how much the cars have been beat on by their owners. I imagine there's a higher percentage of S2000's that have been driven hard than there are Miatas. Especially now that they've been out of production for the last several years and cars in my price range are also in the price range of yahoos. That same boy-racer image kind of rubs me the wrong ways. . . same reason I am turned off by the STi and Evo while at the same time being attracted to them. Not digg'n the digital instruments of the S2000. I prefer the Miata's simple analog layout. Which is funny because when I was younger (early teenage years) I though my mom's Lincoln Continental's digital dash and speedo was the coolest thing ever. It seems somewhat "dumb" to get an NC Miata when I could get an S2000 that has a bit more cache and performance than the Miata for probably similar price. I appreciate the forgiving nature of the Miata's chassis, where as I've heard a number of stories of the S2000's and their snap oversteer and other issues (though, mostly with the AP1 cars). I don't think the S2000's folding top is as elegant or simple as the Miata's top. I'm not sure I want as "intense" a ride as the S2000 offers, especially in a daily driver. I appreciate that the Miata weighs ~400 lb. less than the S2000. All S2000's come with an LSD and 6 spd manual, standard. Where as with the Miata, you have to "find" one that has the Suspension Package to get the LSD. The S2000 seems like it would be a more expensive car to maintain and repair since I'm betting parts are more expensive. And will get harder and harder to come by the further out of production it is. Miatas have a rep for being cheap with parts and consumables. They've made a lot of Miatas, and are in fact still making the NCs. I've had a Miata in the past and loved it. The NC seems like a continuation of what I loved about my old Miata . . . just a little more grown up, modern and updated. The whole V-Tech, yo! thing with the S2000. I know the '04+ cars have a bit more torque and don't quite have the same "on-off" character of the early S2000s, but it seems like that would be a very annoying power delivery for the engine where you're either "on it" or not. With the NC's engine, while it doesn't have a tone of power, what it does have feels very linear. The Miata just seems like such a happy car when it's being run hard and wrung out. It's like every time I get in it and drive it the car has a "come, play with me" feel to it. Very fun, regardless of performance numbers. The Miata has also been very easy to live with. Ultimately, as appealing as the S2000 is I just couldn't pull the trigger. It's not me. __________________ . My website "Jeep is the only true American sports car" - Enzo Ferrari Or something to that effect. Last edited by lupinsea; 03-06-2012 at 03:09 PM.

03-06-2012, 03:07 PM	#16
lupinsea Jeeped Join Date: Sep 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Modified Jeep Tj and '07 Miata Location: Seattle Posts: 10,214	So.... Out of curiosity, I punched up the S2000s in Edmunds.com. Not sure if it's a priority but as of the '04 model year there was no passenger airbag shut off switch. So, it's not particularly well set up for hauling a kid around with you. Otherwise, prices seem good (per Edmunds TMV suggestions). 2004 S2000 w/ 96k miles in "clean" condition $10k private party, $11k dealer 2002 S2000 w/ 120k miles in "clean" condition $6100 private party, $7500 dealer __________________ . My website "Jeep is the only true American sports car" - Enzo Ferrari Or something to that effect.

03-02-2012, 03:28 PM	#12
Biggins Crotchety Join Date: Aug 2007 Carmudgeonly Ride: 22 Tiguan, 11 328i Posts: 912	I'm still not sold on anything yet, but I'm hoping to find something before Memorial Day. I recently tested an MR2 Spyder and a Solstice GXP. I've also seen that early Boxster prices might fall into my range. Spyder- I liked it, but the clutch on this one felt well worn. The car had 117k miles which does not scare me away, but the car felt like it had a hard 117k miles on it if that makes sense. Solstice GXP- Wow. This car really surprised me. It was VERY fast and handled quite well. I REALLY liked it! Though I really liked this car, I had a list of things I thought were dumb: 1. WTF were they thinking with the top?!?!? I'm sure I could get used to putting it up and down, but it is a huge chore on this car. 2. The interior quality is just awful. 3. The wheels are atrocious (chrome, had to be anvils, and why 18s?) 4. Price is slightly out of reach That said, I need to drive a Solstice/Sky non-turbo because they are more in my price range, but they will still have my three complaints above.

03-05-2012, 03:27 PM	#14
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	It's really hard to beat the early NC Miatas for fun per dollar ratio. I would argue that an S2000 is in that ballpark as well. They do exist around the 10k mark, but I don't know how nice of a car you get for that $10k.

03-08-2012, 12:46 PM	#17
wdc330i dogged Join Date: Dec 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '22 M440 xDrive GC Posts: 13,299	here you go: http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/n...871849470.html Edit: never mind. auto.

03-08-2012, 01:27 PM	#18
John V No more BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: Ram, MS3, CX-5, RX-8 Location: Glenwood, MD Posts: 14,753	The more I think about it, Chris, I think you need to go buy a cheap old NA / NB Miata and throw some coilovers and wider wheels / tires at it. You'd be way under your target cost and you would have something incredibly fun to drive every day.

03-08-2012, 05:43 PM	#19
equ Alphanumeric Join Date: Aug 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 340i Posts: 9,584	I'd go with Lup on this one. His numbers seem hard to beat. A $10k s2000? No, thanks.

03-09-2012, 12:08 PM	#20
Biggins Crotchety Join Date: Aug 2007 Carmudgeonly Ride: 22 Tiguan, 11 328i Posts: 912	Thank you lup & everyone for your insights. I have two test drives scheduled tomorrow (non-turbo Solstice and an '06 Miata/MX5). I've eliminated BMW roadsters from my list. I've driven and autocrossed an S2000 (once), but the ones I've seen in my price range seem well used. I plan to make a decision by the end of the month, preferably sooner. It's down to the NC Miata, Solstice (with that dumb top design), and S2000.