Nissan Leaf, Tesla Roadster --> FAIL.

[lemming]

maybe i'm lacking in vision, but i don't understand the point of these cars at all for 90% of the US population.

road trip.....uh......NO, unless every 50 miles has the $2,200 charger?

stuck in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on.......uh.............no.

stuck in traffic on an extremely cold winter day........uh...........no.

even for ZipCar.............hmmm...............no. not unless they have GPS shut-off the cars automatically if they leave the city limits for fear of having to pay for towing the car back to a ZipCar charging station.

pretty awesome for 35,000USD or 100,000USD.

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by lemming

maybe i'm lacking in vision, but i don't understand the point of these cars at all for 90% of the US population.

road trip.....uh......NO, unless every 50 miles has the $2,200 charger?

stuck in traffic on a hot day with the A/C on.......uh.............no.

stuck in traffic on an extremely cold winter day........uh...........no.

even for ZipCar.............hmmm...............no. not unless they have GPS shut-off the cars automatically if they leave the city limits for fear of having to pay for towing the car back to a ZipCar charging station.

pretty awesome for 35,000USD or 100,000USD.

The tesla cost 200k, so it's definitely not for the average driver - I think the idea with cars like these is to garner attention to the issue - no one's going to buy a tesla roadster for its economy, but all the rags will write about it because it's a "sports car".

[Terri Kennedy]

Originally Posted by lemming

maybe i'm lacking in vision, but i don't understand the point of these cars at all for 90% of the US population.

road trip.....uh......NO, unless every 50 miles has the $2,200 charger

This is what people found out when they signed up for the Mini E test. One of the NJBMWCCA folks was selected for the trial, and between the initial marketing and delivery of the car, the usable range estimate plummeted. I believe he was going to have his wife drive it to work (she taught at a school relatively close by), but the actual range was too short to do this with any margin of safety, so it wound up sitting most of the time.

If the batteries can be engineered to not have their useful service life reduced by ultra-rapid charging, then a sufficient infrastructure may develop for these.

I remember when diesel passenger cars were a rarity in the US, and owners had to drive quite a distance to find a station with diesel, unless they lived near a truck stop. But today diesel is everywhere.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by Terry Kennedy

This is what people found out when they signed up for the Mini E test. One of the NJBMWCCA folks was selected for the trial, and between the initial marketing and delivery of the car, the usable range estimate plummeted. I believe he was going to have his wife drive it to work (she taught at a school relatively close by), but the actual range was too short to do this with any margin of safety, so it wound up sitting most of the time.

If the batteries can be engineered to not have their useful service life reduced by ultra-rapid charging, then a sufficient infrastructure may develop for these.

I remember when diesel passenger cars were a rarity in the US, and owners had to drive quite a distance to find a station with diesel, unless they lived near a truck stop. But today diesel is everywhere.

i fear for Leaf owners who drive the cars like "normal" cars in the cut and thrust of true urban driving and then get stuck idling in heavy traffic, too.

police officers might have to write special tickets for abandoned electric vehicles.

[lupinsea]

And these are the very reasons why I think GM's Volt is a much better car at this point.

You get 40 miles of electric-only driving and have a gas fired generator to power the battery / electric motors after that. Between the initial battery charge and the gas generator back up you have a 340 mile range. And if you get tot he end of that range in one day (road trip) then you just put regular gas in the car and keep going. When you stop for the night plug in in an you're good to go for another 40 miles of electric-only driving.

IIRC, GM did some research and figured 85% of commuters commute 40 miles or less round trip per day so that was where they pegged the electric range at.

The Tesla is cool that it has a much greater range than the Leaf but ultimately they both have the same achillies heel: when they're both out of battery juice it takes several hours to recharge.

No so with the Volt, 10 minute fill up at the gas station and you're on your way again.


Until battery technology improves significantly beyond where it's at now I think cars like the Volt will be the best option. And what I see as needing greater improvement for the batteries are matching the range of a gas powered car (~300-ish miles per charge) and a quick charge-up time. . . . which I see as close to the time it takes to fill up a regular gas powered car or about 10-15 minutes. Oh, and being able to do so without damaging the batteries.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by lupinsea

And these are the very reasons why I think GM's Volt is a much better car at this point.

You get 40 miles of electric-only driving and have a gas fired generator to power the battery / electric motors after that. Between the initial battery charge and the gas generator back up you have a 340 mile range. And if you get tot he end of that range in one day (road trip) then you just put regular gas in the car and keep going. When you stop for the night plug in in an you're good to go for another 40 miles of electric-only driving.

IIRC, GM did some research and figured 85% of commuters commute 40 miles or less round trip per day so that was where they pegged the electric range at.

The Tesla is cool that it has a much greater range than the Leaf but ultimately they both have the same achillies heel: when they're both out of battery juice it takes several hours to recharge.

No so with the Volt, 10 minute fill up at the gas station and you're on your way again.


Until battery technology improves significantly beyond where it's at now I think cars like the Volt will be the best option. And what I see as needing greater improvement for the batteries are matching the range of a gas powered car (~300-ish miles per charge) and a quick charge-up time. . . . which I see as close to the time it takes to fill up a regular gas powered car or about 10-15 minutes. Oh, and being able to do so without damaging the batteries.

agreed.