2019 E450 Wagon

[lemming]

Originally Posted by robg

I’m pretty sure the b58 with their mild hybrid system woukd certainly be a contender for 6 cylinders. Yes there are other similar engines now, but I suspect the bmw units are still the most efficient and smoothest. I don’t think bmw v8s have ever been all that great



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I think this community has made it so I can never own a BMW V8 without worrying.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by lemming

It’s not the past per se as the present, IMO. I was just curious what it is about the current BMW lineup that is appealing. I’ve driven a 530e and 540i recently to benchmark when I bought the AMG E53.

Styling is subjective.

Again though, looking at the competition, I think BMW has for the most part jumped the shark the least. I don't think you can make an argument that the m5 is not the best looking of the three.

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by robg

I’m pretty sure the b58 with their mild hybrid system woukd certainly be a contender for 6 cylinders. Yes there are other similar engines now, but I suspect the bmw units are still the most efficient and smoothest. I don’t think bmw v8s have ever been all that great



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BMW has only ever made two decent V8s. The S62 and the S65. They have their issues (especially the S65), but they make up for them. Every single other V8 is an unreliable turd.

[SCA]

Originally Posted by robg

I don’t think bmw v8s have ever been all that great.

They are great at being maintenance monsters out of warranty.

Originally Posted by lemming

I think this community has made it so I can never own a BMW V8 without worrying.

It would be wise for everyone to heed the advice that has been given.


My parent’s 2013 E70 N63TU is going to need a engine replacement sooner rather than later. It has over 101k miles now. It was purchased new and maintained above and beyond BMW recommended services. This is what BMW V8s do… even more so when they have factory turbos strapped to them.

A new crate N63TU from BMW is $5k and solely because they sell a ton of them… R&I is $3-3.5k.

Edit: BMW 550i N63 engine replacement ~ Time lapse (3:42). https://youtu.be/_INMyIQgKhc

[IndyMike]

Originally Posted by robg

When I see a nice older bmw on the road I do sometimes get nostalgic and think of “the good old days”. But I have to remind myself that I honestly haven’t enjoyed driving older or classic cars for very long - after about an hour I’m sick of them. This goes for even “holy grail” cars I’ve experienced like the 930 turbo. I drove my old e46 (still well kept by mother in law) a while back and it felt like a shitbox in comparison to modern cars. What I actually miss on older or classic cars is the styling, visibility and some of the interior controls (when they are simple and solid feeling). In the case of older Mercedes and Porsches it’s the door closing sound as well.

So when push comes to shove, if I’m honest with myself, yeah I’d still grab the keys to a current big schnoz bmw over an older one 99% of the time.

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I guess this is where we split robg. As long as it's not been trashed out and thrashed I will 99% of the time take the keys to an '06 ZHP than a modern F30 or G20 variant, looks independent.

Modern non-M BMW cars are generally just fancy appliances that engender no emotional attachment, passion or connection to them. If you are in them primarily for the tech or higher HP numbers, then they are just gateway drugs that keep you addicted until they break out of warranty, or you flip for the LCI or next generation because it is obsolete, or out horsepowered.

There is nothing wrong if that is your bent. I am just saying if you have some emotional or intangible skin in the game, then the decision to replace is much harder because it is not so much about numbers, tech or luxury.

I will grant that BMW trucks are arguably different. I don't think you will ever hear or see someone say "Gee, I wish I had kept my '01 X5".

Originally Posted by robg

It’d be nice to have a big garage with some classics that I could stare at while drinking a beer though.

I don't think you will find such a member on this site that would rather stare at a classic and make it a garage queen, than get it out and put it through its paces. Most of us would rather stare (during a traffic stop) upon an unopened bottle of beer while driving.

[robg]

Originally Posted by IndyMike

I guess this is where we split robg. As long as it's not been trashed out and thrashed I will 99% of the time take the keys to an '06 ZHP than a modern F30 or G20 variant, looks independent.

Modern non-M BMW cars are generally just fancy appliances that engender no emotional attachment, passion or connection to them. If you are in them primarily for the tech or higher HP numbers, then they are just gateway drugs that keep you addicted until they break out of warranty, or you flip for the LCI or next generation because it is obsolete, or out horsepowered.

There is nothing wrong if that is your bent. I am just saying if you have some emotional or intangible skin in the game, then the decision to replace is much harder because it is not so much about numbers, tech or luxury.

I will grant that BMW trucks are arguably different. I don't think you will ever hear or see someone say "Gee, I wish I had kept my '01 X5".


I don't think you will find such a member on this site that would rather stare at a classic and make it a garage queen, than get it out and put it through its paces. Most of us would rather stare (during a traffic stop) upon an unopened bottle of beer while driving.

Yeah I'm not claiming that there aren't emotional reasons why I'd want to own an older BMW...but if i'm honest with myself those reasons are primarily about the looks of the car and maybe the nostalgia they evoke...not the driving experience. And I totally get the appeal of hanging onto a car and keeping it well maintained.

Most BMWs were (and are) designed to be compromises between having a sports car and a dull family sedan (or SUV). That's why most older BMWs (10+ years) don't really make sense to me to own from a daily usage and driving perspective. I'd still want a newer car for most daily needs / family duty due to better safety, comfort, and tech. So.. an older BMW would have to be a 2nd or 3rd car. And at that point, I think i'm better off just getting a dedicated sports car. I had to give some thought to this recently because the opportunity to buy back my old e46 presented itself.

As an only or primary car that balances daily driver needs with some performance and fun, I think a modern 6 cylinder equipped BMW fills the role about as well (maybe better) as its predecessors did in their day (albeit if you can get over the looks). Even without artificial sound enhancements, I actually think the current b58 even sounds better than many of the regular sixes from BMWs past...plus you get that mild hybrid + turbo torque which is nice in everyday driving situations. And, frankly, with a few exceptions BMWs shifters/clutches have never felt among the best to me...plus there were quite a few pre-EPS cars that had pretty uninspiring steering feel (any recirc ball system, some e46s, etc). The 4 cylinder F30 cars were definitely a low point IMO.

Now where's my beer...

[IndyMike]

Originally Posted by robg

Yeah I'm not claiming that there aren't emotional reasons why I'd want to own an older BMW...but if i'm honest with myself those reasons are primarily about the looks of the car and maybe the nostalgia they evoke...not the driving experience. And I totally get the appeal of hanging onto a car and keeping it well maintained.

Most BMWs were (and are) designed to be compromises between having a sports car and a dull family sedan (or SUV). That's why most older BMWs (10+ years) don't really make sense to me to own from a daily usage and driving perspective. I'd still want a newer car for most daily needs / family duty due to better safety, comfort, and tech. So.. an older BMW would have to be a 2nd or 3rd car. And at that point, I think i'm better off just getting a dedicated sports car. I had to give some thought to this recently because the opportunity to buy back my old e46 presented itself.

As an only or primary car that balances daily driver needs with some performance and fun, I think a modern 6 cylinder equipped BMW fills the role about as well (maybe better) as its predecessors did in their day (albeit if you can get over the looks). Even without artificial sound enhancements, I actually think the current b58 even sounds better than many of the regular sixes from BMWs past...plus you get that mild hybrid + turbo torque which is nice in everyday driving situations. And, frankly, with a few exceptions BMWs shifters/clutches have never felt among the best to me...plus there were quite a few pre-EPS cars that had pretty uninspiring steering feel (any recirc ball system, some e46s, etc). The 4 cylinder F30 cars were definitely a low point IMO.

Now where's my beer...

I get where you are coming from, and you are pretty much on point with my opinions as well.

And here you go:

[lemming]

Originally Posted by robg

Yeah I'm not claiming that there aren't emotional reasons why I'd want to own an older BMW...but if i'm honest with myself those reasons are primarily about the looks of the car and maybe the nostalgia they evoke...not the driving experience. And I totally get the appeal of hanging onto a car and keeping it well maintained.

Most BMWs were (and are) designed to be compromises between having a sports car and a dull family sedan (or SUV). That's why most older BMWs (10+ years) don't really make sense to me to own from a daily usage and driving perspective. I'd still want a newer car for most daily needs / family duty due to better safety, comfort, and tech. So.. an older BMW would have to be a 2nd or 3rd car. And at that point, I think i'm better off just getting a dedicated sports car. I had to give some thought to this recently because the opportunity to buy back my old e46 presented itself.

As an only or primary car that balances daily driver needs with some performance and fun, I think a modern 6 cylinder equipped BMW fills the role about as well (maybe better) as its predecessors did in their day (albeit if you can get over the looks). Even without artificial sound enhancements, I actually think the current b58 even sounds better than many of the regular sixes from BMWs past...plus you get that mild hybrid + turbo torque which is nice in everyday driving situations. And, frankly, with a few exceptions BMWs shifters/clutches have never felt among the best to me...plus there were quite a few pre-EPS cars that had pretty uninspiring steering feel (any recirc ball system, some e46s, etc). The 4 cylinder F30 cars were definitely a low point IMO.

Now where's my beer...

I agree with this perspective.

When we are not talking about M cars or 3 series, this seems to be where BMW has newfound strength. And yes, the b58 engine looks pretty amazing.

Kind of has to be because that hot vee V8 thing isn’t working out so well.

And the four cylinder turbos……blech. If I am getting a 4cyl turbo, I’d get an Audi or Giulia like TD. Spicier.

[Josh (PA)]

Carshop listed my wagon this morning. $64,599. They bought it for $61k, so they aren't making a ton of money. I was curious how much they would profit off it.

https://www.carshop.com/used-car/201...50-AWD-A81908M

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Carshop listed my wagon this morning. $64,599. They bought it for $61k, so they aren't making a ton of money. I was curious how much they would profit off it.

https://www.carshop.com/used-car/201...50-AWD-A81908M

FWIW, from my observations, Carmax, Carvana, and Vroom look like they pretty consistently list cars about for about $6500 (+/-$1k) more than they pay.