Finally drove Wrangler unltd (Rubicon)

[John V]

Okay, in what scenario is this useful but the V70R is not?

[FC]

Originally Posted by lupinsea

Well, if the resale on the Tacomas have dropped (?) then it might be a good time to get into the market. And again, as a more utilitarian, not-used-as-offten vehicle I'd look for the oldest model year that had the 4-doors.

Ah. . 2002 4-Door Tacoma ~$12k.

• 3705 lb. curb weight (not too bad)
• 1400 lb. payload in bed
• 5000 lb. towing capacity
• 190 hp, 220 ft-lb. V6 (pretty close to the Wrangler, actually)
• 16 mpg combined

You know, most of this is pretty close to the JK except for the towing capacity. The top and doors don't come off. But you get a separate, exterior cargo bed and more towing capacity at about $5000 less than a used JK.

It's not a bad idea. I will certainly add it to the list. I just never saw myself as a truck guy, but I can get over that. My biggest issue is that while the outside bed is nice, I feel I often need to carry long things. In my wagon or an SUV, I can drop the seats and have access all the way to the dash if I want. In this pick up, I'd be limited to the length of the bed. Anyhow, I'll look into it.

As far as costs and timing, the situation is very simple. I don't really want to spend any money on cars until about a year form now. I've gotten by without an SUV before and will continue to do so until I feel comfortable financially. Being in the hole by a bunch of money from the remodeling doesn't make me want to run out there and spend on a car I don't absolutely need.

Now, if I can swap my 330i for a JK, or spend just a couple of thousand more to get it, that's one thing. I still think it I would miss not having a MT car or something as sporty as the 330i that I've had for 6 years, but with the combination of the V70R not being completely un-fun and the JK being newish and novel, I may get through for a few months. I'm not willing to do that for an old Tacoma, 4Runner, JGC, etc. I don't care that I would save 5K on the trade, and I certainly don't want to spend $10-12K right now on a 3rd car.

[rautox]

Originally Posted by John V

Why buy a rough and tumble off-road SUV when you don't need such a vehicle? It's just going to be frustrating in 95% of the situations you encounter day-to-day.

I like mine's simplicity. It was a selling point. The luddite in me really doesn't like the complexity bloat in the current market. There isn't really anything else out there similarly primitive/simple, with a viable aftermarket. CRV's and highlanders are soulless appliances to me, and I'd be annoyed by driving one.

Mine gets treated like a small truck (8' lumber fits with all the windows and doors shut--though, not a lot, which is fine). It is refreshingly easy to work on. And since my expectations of its handling are so low, it's more amusing than frustrating.

[FC]

Originally Posted by John V

Okay, in what scenario is this useful but the V70R is not?

-4+ Inches of unplowed snow
-Snow banks
-Mild trails or muddy terrain
-Messy loads
-Mild towing
-Stormy weather (any time of year, really)

[clyde]

Originally Posted by FC

-4+ Inches of unplowed snow
-Snow banks

I'll give you snow stuff, but...

-Mild trails or muddy terrain
-Messy loads
-Mild towing

How often do these come up for you? For some people, quite often. Most others, not so much. A lot of people, never. Not sure where you fall in this spectrum.

-Stormy weather (any time of year, really)

Really?

[John V]

Originally Posted by FC

-4+ Inches of unplowed snow
-Snow banks
-Mild trails or muddy terrain
-Messy loads
-Mild towing
-Stormy weather (any time of year, really)

The V70R can't make it through four inches of unplowed snow and doesn't get used in stormy weather?

[FC]

You know what? You guys asked, I answered. I now have to qualify every single thing I say?

This is the last time I'll answer to justify my "need" for an SUV.

For JV: No, I never said that. Read my previous posts if you must. I am saying things would be a lot easier in an another type of vehicle and I would avoid risking damaging the more delicate Volvo. In other cases it allows me to do stuff as opposed to saying tough luck, I'll wait until the roads get plowed, or until the weekend when my dad can (maybe) lend me his truck, or until my wife gets back with the wagon, etc. It also saves me from having to carefully clean the wagon and its Nappa leather from excessive dog-related stuff, salt, sand, etc.

clyde: I tow a 5x9 U-haul trailer full of yard debris twice a year (multiple fully loaded trips). I also have a bike rack. I also used to and hope to resume mountain biking. Access roads to trails even suburban state forests, parks, etc are often muddy, bumpy and miserable. Going apple picking this fall, we had to walk an additional half a mile with a baby in arms and bags of apples because the parking area was a muddy mess ( I knew it would be the case given recent weather) with many car-based awd cars stuck and having to get pulled out. This, to a lesser extent is the case in the parking area for my summer soccer league (if you want to park nearby). Mountain biking is almost always a muddy experience, as can be to play soccer. Ditto hiking with a dog who will almost invariably get muddy. I do often buy dirt, pots, quickrete, lumber, etc that would be a lot easier to carry in a vehicle that I didn't give a shit about or could literally be hosed off.

In New England, on any decent storm you have lots of limbs littering the streets. Often they are small and you hardly care. Other times they are not. I've had to sit still for a while waiting for the opposite lane to clear of traffic. I've also ran over others because the SUV in front of me cleared it fine but I instead scratched my bumper. I worry about one day that being a thick piece that will damage my intercooler (that sits awfully low to the ground).

These are just some of the things that I can remember right now.

[Sharp11]

Originally Posted by FC

You know what? You guys asked, I answered. I now have to qualify every single thing I say?

This is the last time I'll answer to justify my "need" for an SUV.

If that's why you "need" an SUV, a Subaru Outback will serve you just fine.

On the other hand, if you "want" an SUV, just get one, you don't need to justify your desire to anyone

No one around here needs 300 plus hp sport sedans either - it's an "unjustifiable" desire, yet it's acceptable for some odd reason

[John V]

Originally Posted by Sharp11

If that's why you "need" an SUV, a Subaru Outback will serve you just fine.

On the other hand, if you "want" an SUV, just get one, you don't need to justify your desire to anyone

[equ]

Very surprised that you need an suv for 4+ inches. Drove my a4q and the subie impreza (both on old crappy all-seasons) on 12+. That's when the fun begins.

As usual, +1 to JV & Ed, get it if you want, just don't rationalize it as a need. Especially a Jeep.