carmudgeons.com  

Go Back   carmudgeons.com > Automotive Forums > Car Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-04-2019, 02:43 PM   #1
BahnBaum
Tilting Rocinante
 
BahnBaum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 6,244
Alfa Romeo Giulia 2.0 at 1500 miles

A few weeks and 1500 miles in, I wanted to share some initial thoughts on owning this car.

First, before anyone asks, there have been no reliability issues. Yet, anyway. I may regret saying this, maybe even as soon as on my drive home.

Driving dynamics are spectacular. The steering is incredibly precise and ultra quick, precise and quick to the point where you feel like you have to pay more attention to what you're doing. I read somewhere that the fixed ratio 11.8:1 rack is the quickest of any sedan made today, but that might be fake news, and it's just a tad over two turns lock to lock. It's AWD, but under normal conditions it sends 100% of the power to the rear, and the performance package comes with a mechanical lsd. As far as I'm concerned it drives like a rwd car. This is the first car I've owned with selectable drive modes and adaptive suspension, and I'm impressed with how well this covers the different ways you might want to drive it. In generally, it drives much lighter than it's 3500#ish weight.

The engine is responsive and torquey, with very little turbo lag. It can sound a bit coarse, but it feels every bit as quick as my e46 m3 was (which sounded even coarser). The ZF 8 speed is incredibly quick shifting and it's programming fits each of the 3 different driving modes pretty well, there's even a bit of cool sounding rev matching on manually activated downshifts in dynamic mode. It's got massive aluminum column mounted shift levers and it's a fun transmission to drive in dynamic mode shifting manually. This car (like the Camaro SS that I rented recently) has proven to me that the lack of MT doesn't have to be the deal killer for me that it once was.

The Continental brake-by-wire brakes are bipolar for me. The fronts are 4 piston brembos and at speed they're fine, really linear and with long pedal throw. It's in stop and go that they fucking suck. The initial low speed bite is vague, vague to the point that you're not positive where your foot is in the throw. I used to pride myself on perfect "limo stops"; 1500 miles in and I still can't consistently get it right. Setting aside the inconvenience of jerky stops, I have found myself more than once in a stop and go sudden stop wondering if I was actually going to stop in time. Its inconsistency makes me wonder if something is wrong with the system, but from reading on line my experience isn't unusual.

The interior is a nice place to be. It's relatively simple, thankfully without a shit ton of buttons. There are no shared FCA part bin items that I can tell. The seats and driving position are fantastic and fit me just about perfectly. The best thing about the infotainment system is that it's hidden in the dash and doesn't look like they nailed an ipad somewhere, but everything else about it is just mediocre. For a car that was a clean sheet design and went into production in less than two years, it's obvious that infotainment took a back seat. The interior material quality is mixed, extended leather covered dash and doors looks and smells great, but pieces like the infotainment selector knob, which looks like it could be made of billet stainless, reminds you that it's not every time you touch it. Overall, the driving dynamics trump any issues I have with the consistency of interior quality.

And because it's an Alfa it's got quirks. Some of them I suppose have reason to be quirky, some of them are quirky due to poor execution and some are quirky due to someone just totally forgetting something. They include things like:

On the dash, aside from the speedometer and tach, there are two gauges: a fuel gauge (and even that is an electronic display using a serious of 8 dashes, so it doesn't even pretend to be precise), and an engine oil temp gauge using the same 8 dash display. No coolant temp, no voltmeter, no oil pressure gauge. No problem, because you'll find that in the car info section of the infotainment system, right? Well, wrong. The car info section contains 3 screens: tire pressure info, fuel economy info and a complete pdf of the owners manual (!). Speaking of owner's manuals, have you ever seen an owner's manually that had separate addenda, printed on A4 paper and folded in half and placed in the manual?

The automatic headlight system has 3 levels of sensitivity. All three levels appear to result in auto headlights activating while even driving under a quick overpass in broad daylight. Unfortunately, they don't care about being as sensitive about turning off, so you go through a few extra seconds of not being able to read anything on your infotainment screen (like waze) because of the dimmed dash. I don't know if there's a on/off cycle life for xenons, but it's annoying enough that I've considered turning off the auto headlights and going old school.

The backup camera has the equivalent screen quality of a 5th gen iPod. And it's similarly sized. It's borderline worthless. Fortunately the optional rear cross path detection system does a great job of audibly warning you that you need to look more closely at the shitty rear camera display because you missed something. Or better yet, look back over your shoulder.

No aspect of ESC or TC is defeatable on this car. Nothing. It's always there. This car drives so well I'd have considered showing up at an autox or doing a track day, but not until someone figures out an aftermarket solution to this.

Alfa may think it's not safe to allow it's drivers to defeat ESC and TC, but they're certainly fine with you digging into infotainment menus as deep you want while you're driving, including reading the pdf of your owner's manual. I haven't yet experienced a single one of those "Sorry you can't do that while in motion" nannies.

It's got Pirelli P Zero runflats. Since I'n not leasing this car, I'll have to figure out a solution, but I have some time to figure that out.

As of today, I'm very happy. I paid nowhere near MSRP, I've got an extended warranty, it looks like I'll get about 30 mpg in my normal routine, and every time I walk up to the car, from every angle, I'm taken aback at how gorgeous it looks. Compared to what I would have gotten in a BMW, Audi or Genesis for similar money, I can't imagine having a car that would be this much fun to drive and still serve it's practical purpose as my primary commuter and occasionally people hauler.

I do reserve the right, however, to come back here and flog myself publically for buying a car with a history of reliability issues, regardless of how much fun it is to drive. It could be that's some of the allure for me. Maybe it's like the risk inherent with dating a former hooker, not that I've ever done that.

Alex
__________________
BahnBaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 06:16 PM   #2
robg
Carmudgeon
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 3,224
Quote:
Maybe it's like the risk inherent with dating a former hooker, not that I've ever done that
LOL - loved how you just dropped that at the end there.

I've heard similar complaints about the low speed behavior of the brakes from other reviewers. Given that they're brake-by-wire hopefully an eventual software update will make it better. That does sound super annoying though. Haven't sat in one yet, but in pics I love the interior-especailly with the light colored wood. Probably my favorite of all current sedans. Even the quirks (including the A4 printed owners manual addenda) sound very Alfa. Doug Demuro would love that.
robg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 06:42 PM   #3
equ
Alphanumeric
 
equ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 340i
Posts: 9,580
Great review, Alex. Just like you thought about boxsters, I keep thinking about Giulias... Must.. not.. test.. drive..
equ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 06:59 PM   #4
kognito
older fart than ZBB
 
kognito's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: On the road again
Posts: 8,887
Great you are enjoying it! Do you get a miles to empty readout somewhere, or just guess by an LED bar?
__________________
2017 GMC Sierra 1500 SLE
2020 Fusion Titanium
kognito is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 09:40 PM   #5
BahnBaum
Tilting Rocinante
 
BahnBaum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 6,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by robg View Post
Given that they're brake-by-wire hopefully an eventual software update will make it better.

Model year #3 and so far nothing. I hope they do, but I’m not holding my breath.

Alex




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
BahnBaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 09:42 PM   #6
clyde
Chief title editor
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 26,599
When I drove it, I was most amused that there was a warning message flashing when I first sat in the driver's seat telling me that something was failing (even it was a reasonable weather related thing). Hopefully, that's all that will happen.

The FoST steering ratio was variable from 13.7 at center to 10.1. Was 1.9 turns lock to lock IIRC (or maybe 2.1 if I don't?). I miss that in the Camaro. Enjoy the Alfa's!

I was not a fan of the paddles in my short drive. Too huge and too close to the wheels. Being fixed, I understand there's only so much you can do, but they kept getting in the way of my fingers when moving my hands on the wheel. The only car I have lots of miles in with paddles is the Outback. I don't know they're there unless I think about it. I like that.

My reading about the car described brakes like you described. Seems like the Achilles Heel for the car from a driving perspective. Hopefully, you'll get used to it enough.

I thought the displays looked nice in the Giulia. The 8 dash fuel gauge reminds me mentally (since I don't remember seeing it) of the C4 disco digital dash. 1983 tech right there.

I just googled stability defeat for the car and it looks like there may be some options (including fuse pulling) that would work for autocross if you don't feel compelled to compete in a Street (stock) class.

I would have preferred more vertical foot space in the rear seat. Having my feet on the floor with toes under the driver's seat, my toes didn't have enough room. Another half inch to inch would have been great.

Looking forward to seeing your experiences with it
__________________
OH NOES!!!!!1 MY CAR HAS T3H UND3R5T33R5555!!!!!!1oneone!!!!11

Team WTF?!
What are you gonna do?
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 09:43 PM   #7
BahnBaum
Tilting Rocinante
 
BahnBaum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 6,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by equ View Post
Must.. not.. test.. drive..

You and Cara need to come down for other reasons then.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
BahnBaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 09:44 PM   #8
BahnBaum
Tilting Rocinante
 
BahnBaum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 6,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by kognito View Post
Great you are enjoying it! Do you get a miles to empty readout somewhere, or just guess by an LED bar?


Yes DTE counter.

Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
BahnBaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 09:52 PM   #9
BahnBaum
Tilting Rocinante
 
BahnBaum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Havre de Grace, MD
Posts: 6,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
When I drove it, I was most amused that there was a warning message flashing when I first sat in the driver's seat telling me that something was failing (even it was a reasonable weather related thing). Hopefully, that's all that will happen.

The FoST steering ratio was variable from 13.7 at center to 10.1. Was 1.9 turns lock to lock IIRC (or maybe 2.1 if I don't?). I miss that in the Camaro. Enjoy the Alfa's!

I was not a fan of the paddles in my short drive. Too huge and too close to the wheels. Being fixed, I understand there's only so much you can do, but they kept getting in the way of my fingers when moving my hands on the wheel. The only car I have lots of miles in with paddles is the Outback. I don't know they're there unless I think about it. I like that.

My reading about the car described brakes like you described. Seems like the Achilles Heel for the car from a driving perspective. Hopefully, you'll get used to it enough.

I thought the displays looked nice in the Giulia. The 8 dash fuel gauge reminds me mentally (since I don't remember seeing it) of the C4 disco digital dash. 1983 tech right there.

I just googled stability defeat for the car and it looks like there may be some options (including fuse pulling) that would work for autocross if you don't feel compelled to compete in a Street (stock) class.

I would have preferred more vertical foot space in the rear seat. Having my feet on the floor with toes under the driver's seat, my toes didn't have enough room. Another half inch to inch would have been great.

Looking forward to seeing your experiences with it

I think the warning light was a forward parking sensor with snow on it. There was also weird behavior from the auto high beams when you drove it; I fixed that by disabling it. It appears that auto high beams in the Giulia doesn’t just mean turning them off when headlights are oncoming, but also turning them on under some vaguely defined conditions.

From what I had read, pulling the fuse to defeat esp and tc also appears to turn off dynamic mode, with its more aggressive shift and throttle mapping and suspension settings.

I don’t sit in the back, so my toes are fine.

Alex



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
BahnBaum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-04-2019, 10:29 PM   #10
clyde
Chief title editor
 
clyde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 26,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by BahnBaum View Post
I think the warning light was a forward parking sensor with snow on it. There was also weird behavior from the auto high beams when you drove it; I fixed that by disabling it. It appears that auto high beams in the Giulia doesn’t just mean turning them off when headlights are oncoming, but also turning them on under some vaguely defined conditions.

From what I had read, pulling the fuse to defeat esp and tc also appears to turn off dynamic mode, with its more aggressive shift and throttle mapping and suspension settings.

I don’t sit in the back, so my toes are fine.

Alex



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I forgot about the headlights. That was all just weird.

There seems to be something about disconnecting the battery, waiting, reconnecting and then starting the car really quickly.

https://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/alfa...y-control.html

__________________
OH NOES!!!!!1 MY CAR HAS T3H UND3R5T33R5555!!!!!!1oneone!!!!11

Team WTF?!
What are you gonna do?
clyde is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums © 2003-2008, 'Mudgeon Enterprises - Site hosting by AYN & Associates, LLC