More E90 Pics and 1st drive *Lots of pics*

[ayn]

I meant the tranny and clutch, not the car...

[killerdeck]

Originally Posted by ayn

Never driven a ZHP really, I'm sure it's very special, but it'd have to be be leaps and bounds better than my 330Ci for it to be as good as you think it is... I've known TD long enough to trust his opinions on it though, if he thinks it sucks, it most likely does! Maybe I'll test drive yours at our next lil Austin lunch meet.

--Andrew

Sounds like fair game. Personally, I regard the ZHP transmission to be one of the best BMW has produced in the last 10 years. I have driven 1995-2006 manuals in 323, 328, 325, 330, M3, 525, 530, 540, Z3, M Coupe, M roadster, Z4 2.5, Z4 3.0, and X3 3.0.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by killerdeck

Sounds like fair game. Personally, I regard the ZHP transmission to be one of the best BMW has produced in the last 10 years. I have driven 1995-2006 manuals in 323, 328, 325, 330, M3, 525, 530, 540, Z3, M Coupe, M roadster, Z4 2.5, Z4 3.0, and X3 3.0.

nah.

i have to disagree there. i've driven the ZHP manual and i wouldn't call it superior to the short shift throw plus firmness of the M coupe. could be the same mechanism with more "fluidity" because it's an e46, but the M coupe will stand to me as the finest gearbox in recent memory. hated the long throws of the e36m3 and the e46m3 throws are quite long, also. the throws of the standard e46s are okay but precise.

IMO, BMWs and Porsche do not build transmissions with great feel --they are precise (if notchy) units but they still pale in comparison to the rx8, for example, and the miata or s2000. each one of the aforementioned cars should be the paradigm to emulate but once again, the 3 series is an entry level luxury car so a lot of that "feel" is sacrificed for the sake of a well oiled mechanism with a really wobbly & vague clutch take-up.

[FC]

Originally Posted by lemming

nah.

i have to disagree there. i've driven the ZHP manual and i wouldn't call it superior to the short shift throw plus firmness of the M coupe. could be the same mechanism with more "fluidity" because it's an e46, but the M coupe will stand to me as the finest gearbox in recent memory. hated the long throws of the e36m3 and the e46m3 throws are quite long, also. the throws of the standard e46s are okay but precise.

IMO, BMWs and Porsche do not build transmissions with great feel --they are precise (if notchy) units but they still pale in comparison to the rx8, for example, and the miata or s2000. each one of the aforementioned cars should be the paradigm to emulate but once again, the 3 series is an entry level luxury car so a lot of that "feel" is sacrificed for the sake of a well oiled mechanism with a really wobbly & vague clutch take-up.

Out of the 987 Boxster, the Mazdaspoeed Miata, and the ZHP, I'd have to say that the ZHP's shifter is the best. It is notchy and noisy, but it is short and precise. I can see how it could be made better, but I like it. Now the clutch... that is a pain in the ass.

I keep thinking the car really needs a lighter flywheel. I keep having to deliberately wait for the revs to drop in all lower gears, and for a 1-2 shift, it's an awfully long wait to get the revs low enough to have a smooth shift. After two years, I still find myself depressing the clutch far deeper than I ought to when coming to a quick stop and shifting out of first.

[lemming]

mbr: have you driven an M roadter or M coupe? it's notchier but more direct feeling. likely the same motion as the ZHP package.

my favorite shifter is still the miata. s2000 is a close second. M coupe third.

the one thing that is not readily fixable is the clutch on the E46s and likely the e90s. moving to the dual mass flywheel really sucks. if i kept a 3 series long enough to make it worthwhile (as in never again), i'd swap out the lousy dual mass flywheel for a lightweight single mass unit as that improves the feel noticeably --i did this both on the e36m3 and the M coupe and it made a world of difference in terms of clutch engagement as well as feel.

i fully expect the e90 to have a heavy and spongy dual mass flywheel with a spongy clutch feel.

the interior of the car looks okay in a lexus sort of way. nicer wood. less driver-oriented (seems to have gone out the door after the e36).

my question at the end of the day is: is the e90 has gotten larger and heavier and only marginally faster with even more derivative styling, what's to keep us from driving the next gen IS350 or the g35? or the c350 6speed?

[killerdeck]

[quote=mbr129]

Originally Posted by lemming

nah.

i have to disagree there. i've driven the ZHP manual and i wouldn't call it superior to the short shift throw plus firmness of the M coupe. could be the same mechanism with more "fluidity" because it's an e46, but the M coupe will stand to me as the finest gearbox in recent memory. hated the long throws of the e36m3 and the e46m3 throws are quite long, also. the throws of the standard e46s are okay but precise.

That is why I said what I said. I agree, the M Coupe has the best IMHO too.

[killerdeck]

[quote=mbr129]

Originally Posted by lemming

nah.

i have to disagree there. i've driven the ZHP manual and i wouldn't call it superior to the short shift throw plus firmness of the M coupe. could be the same mechanism with more "fluidity" because it's an e46, but the M coupe will stand to me as the finest gearbox in recent memory. hated the long throws of the e36m3 and the e46m3 throws are quite long, also. the throws of the standard e46s are okay but precise.

That is why I said what I said. I agree, the M Coupe has the best IMHO too. But if I ranked all of those shifters, the ZHP would be in the top 3 and the best for current production models.

[lemming]

[quote=killerdeck]

Originally Posted by mbr129

That is why I said what I said. I agree, the M Coupe has the best IMHO too. But if I ranked all of those shifters, the ZHP would be in the top 3 and the best for current production models.

i'm too lazy to look it up, but it is my suspicion that BMW used/uses the same OEM vendor as for the M coupe/roadster as for the z4's (which have a nice shifter, actually) and the ZHP package. it would be too obtuse to have a completely separate OEM mechanism if it's already proven to be acceptable for the rigors of the M division.

[ayn]

I think the best BMW tranny is actually the 318ti.

[FC]

Originally Posted by lemming

mbr: have you driven an M roadter or M coupe? it's notchier but more direct feeling. likely the same motion as the ZHP package.

my favorite shifter is still the miata. s2000 is a close second. M coupe third.

the one thing that is not readily fixable is the clutch on the E46s and likely the e90s. moving to the dual mass flywheel really sucks. if i kept a 3 series long enough to make it worthwhile (as in never again), i'd swap out the lousy dual mass flywheel for a lightweight single mass unit as that improves the feel noticeably --i did this both on the e36m3 and the M coupe and it made a world of difference in terms of clutch engagement as well as feel.

I don't remmeber the miata being bad, meaning it must have been good, but not eneough to make me remember how good it was.

Depending on how quickly my clutch needs replacing, I will put in a lightweight flywheel.

Originally Posted by lemming

my question at the end of the day is: is the e90 has gotten larger and heavier and only marginally faster with even more derivative styling, what's to keep us from driving the next gen IS350 or the g35? or the c350 6speed?

That is exactly it. And to me the answer is "nothing." Nothing is keeping customers from going to the other options anymore. Some may argue that was the case with the E46. Well, with the E90 all debate should be over.