Your thoughts on VERY expensive performance cars.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

Ford GT. No question.

And I probably wouldn't drive it *every* day. But I bet I'd drive it into work fairly often. How could you not?

If not the GT, then either the DB9 or the AMV8, once that comes out.

i said ford GT, also.

but i'd more than likely get a z06.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by stuka

Since I...own one of these..

..it is a leased vehhicle.

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

Simple. In legalese, Stuka "owns" a "leasehold estate" in the car. He doesn't own it in fee simple, meaning that there is a reversionary interest in the property, but for the duration of his estate he does hold legal rights to the property. He can, for example, lawfully exclude others (including, it should be said, the owners of the reversionary interest) from entering or taking the property.

At least that's what I remember from 1st year property class.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

Simple. In legalese, Stuka "owns" a "leasehold estate" in the car. He doesn't own it in fee simple, meaning that there is a reversionary interest in the property, but for the duration of his estate he does hold legal rights to the property. He can, for example, lawfully exclude others (including, it should be said, the owners of the reversionary interest) from entering or taking the property.

At least that's what I remember from 1st year property class.

What I was getting at had nothing to do with property, exclusive rights or anything of that nature. In the context of the question, if "you had enough money to be able to drop 100-150K (or even 200K I guess) on a performance car," a leased vehicle doesn't cut it. Stuka didn't drop that kind f change on Big Bird if I read his story correctly...and because of his business use of the vehicle, we all get to subsidize his indulgence — well, those of us that pay taxes anyway (better this than paying for a 3+ ton SUV though) — so he pays even less during the time he has it.

[JST]

Originally Posted by clyde

What I was getting at had nothing to do with property, exclusive rights or anything of that nature. In the context of the question, if "you had enough money to be able to drop 100-150K (or even 200K I guess) on a performance car," a leased vehicle doesn't cut it. Stuka didn't drop that kind f change on Big Bird if I read his story correctly...and because of his business use of the vehicle, we all get to subsidize his indulgence — well, those of us that pay taxes anyway (better this than paying for a 3+ ton SUV though) — so he pays even less during the time he has it.

While mbr posited that such a car would be purchased, I don't really think that's material to the question he asked. He was just wondering how folks would use an ultra-expensive performance car. How one comes by the car is secondary to this inquiry.

The real answer, I think, is that the cost of the car has less to do with how it gets used than one might think. As car values increase, so do the incomes of their owners/lessees. Given the average income in the US and the average new car price, my M3 represents a substantially smaller percentage of my income than the average driver's does. And, in any event, its insured. So I'm not really any more worried about the financial consequences of loss/damage than anyone else would be.

I suspect the same holds true as you get into the GT3 category.

Now, the fact that my car is somewhat expensive and flashy does influence where I park it, on the theory that it is more likely to be vandalized/stolen than a less expensive car. Even this, though, may not be the case. There were plenty of Porsches in the garage when my poor GTI was stolen. The GTI, being more common, is a better choice for the criminal on the move, who wants to get someplace unnoticed.

What really influences use is how delicate the cars are. You can't drive a Ferrari every day unless you are prepared to put up with stupid maintenance costs. My guess is that the operating costs on a car like the GT will be miniscule next to those that your average Ferrari would incur.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by stuka

I see Turbos and even GT2's everyday in office building parking lots around LA, which means, other people are also using them to go to work as well.

Wonder how many of those Turbos are AUTOMATICS. :roll:

[FC]

Originally Posted by JST

While mbr posited that such a car would be purchased, I don't really think that's material to the question he asked. He was just wondering how folks would use an ultra-expensive performance car. How one comes by the car is secondary to this inquiry.

The real answer, I think, is that the cost of the car has less to do with how it gets used than one might think. As car values increase, so do the incomes of their owners/lessees. Given the average income in the US and the average new car price, my M3 represents a substantially smaller percentage of my income than the average driver's does. And, in any event, its insured. So I'm not really any more worried about the financial consequences of loss/damage than anyone else would be.

I suspect the same holds true as you get into the GT3 category.

Now, the fact that my car is somewhat expensive and flashy does influence where I park it, on the theory that it is more likely to be vandalized/stolen than a less expensive car. Even this, though, may not be the case. There were plenty of Porsches in the garage when my poor GTI was stolen. The GTI, being more common, is a better choice for the criminal on the move, who wants to get someplace unnoticed.

What really influences use is how delicate the cars are. You can't drive a Ferrari every day unless you are prepared to put up with stupid maintenance costs. My guess is that the operating costs on a car like the GT will be miniscule next to those that your average Ferrari would incur.

I think we can all agree I phrased the question/problem poorly. :roll: ops:

Anyhow, I think enough good conclusions have been brought up in this exercise.

How are service/repair costs for a 996TT or a GT3 vs a "regular" 996/Boxster? It seems from what I hear that engine accessability is the primary reason why maintenance/repair is crazy-expensive.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by mbr129

I think we can all agree I phrased the question/problem poorly. :roll: ops:

Anyhow, I think enough good conclusions have been brought up in this exercise.

How are service/repair costs for a 996TT or a GT3 vs a "regular" 996/Boxster? It seems from what I hear that engine accessability is the primary reason why maintenance/repair is crazy-expensive.

oh. i think you take some of your punches and roll with 'em in porsche ownership just like you would for any other sort of car. for example, isn't a quart of special motor oil for the enzo $100 a quart or something?

i think the average maintenace on a 911 these days is pretty okay. the biggies are the 30,000 mile service, but i am not sure if the new engines even require new plugs at that interval? that's the killer. it's hard to get at all of the plugs.

i think oil changes are still about triple what normal BMW oil changes are; tires? well. you go through rears like MAD. and in that sizing plus N-rated, it's expensive.

brakes? those, too, i suppose.

not too bad, though. i bet they're close to sorting out the M96 engine block problems, but let me reiterate again how AMAZING the gt2/gt3/turbo M64 engine block is: it's able to handle 650 hp of the roock conversion sans modification. people pay homage to the supra block, but let's give some credit to this dry sump engine block. it's a rock.

[FC]

Originally Posted by pDz

oh. i think you take some of your punches and roll with 'em in porsche ownership just like you would for any other sort of car. for example, isn't a quart of special motor oil for the enzo $100 a quart or something?

i think the average maintenace on a 911 these days is pretty okay. the biggies are the 30,000 mile service, but i am not sure if the new engines even require new plugs at that interval? that's the killer. it's hard to get at all of the plugs.

i think oil changes are still about triple what normal BMW oil changes are; tires? well. you go through rears like MAD. and in that sizing plus N-rated, it's expensive.

brakes? those, too, i suppose.

not too bad, though. i bet they're close to sorting out the M96 engine block problems, but let me reiterate again how AMAZING the gt2/gt3/turbo M64 engine block is: it's able to handle 650 hp of the roock conversion sans modification. people pay homage to the supra block, but let's give some credit to this dry sump engine block. it's a rock.

I am going to reply to this, but for the sake of keeping the thread on topic I will reply in the 911 thread.