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Old 01-29-2021, 10:30 AM   #11
clyde
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you may want the proprietary plug.
Because having tons of proprietary versions of things that should be standardizes is better. Choice and profit, yo.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
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Old 01-29-2021, 11:05 AM   #12
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Because having tons of proprietary versions of things that should be standardizes is better. Choice and profit, yo.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
I'm picturing you saying this when we're in the same room, while I'm looking at the iPhone in your hand
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Old 01-29-2021, 12:24 PM   #13
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I'm picturing you saying this when we're in the same room, while I'm looking at the iPhone in your hand
The iPhone to any other phone comparison misses the point.

The old 30 pin or Lightning to USB-C ports of the iPhones vs all other phones is more like it. Actually, what's more like it is what the utter and complete insanity of every manufacturer using their own port.
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Old 01-29-2021, 12:36 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post
Because having tons of proprietary versions of things that should be standardizes is better. Choice and profit, yo.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
not_this_shit_again.jpg

As we've talked about before, Tesla introduced their plug before the CCS Type 3 standard was finalized--and Tesla's plug is demonstrably better!

Having said that, Tesla has gone to the CCS Combo 2 plug in Europe, and I suspect that they may migrate to the same design here in the US.
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Old 01-29-2021, 12:41 PM   #15
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The iPhone to any other phone comparison misses the point.

The old 30 pin or Lightning to USB-C ports of the iPhones vs all other phones is more like it. Actually, what's more like it is what the utter and complete insanity of every manufacturer using their own port.
Was your comment not directed at Tesla choosing to go their own way while other manufacturers settle on one (or maybe two) standard interfaces?

Because that's exactly Apple's thing.
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Old 01-29-2021, 06:17 PM   #16
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Might as well! Parts for her charger were in short supply when my ex-wife got her Tesla, so who knows whether manufacturers will be able to keep up with the growing demand for power bits in an orderly fashion.
Tesla is now on their 3rd gen of their “wall charger” and has had supply issues, partly because some governments give a big rebate on them (Canada and California in particular).

We had one put in and the electrician was surprised I was able to get one. I just happened to check the Tesla store one day and saw they were in stock after not being able to get one for a few weeks. We have it installed on a 60A circuit — which results in 44-45 miles added per hour of charge on both our cars...

Other EVSEs on the market are typically designed for a 30A breaker, so charge slower. There are a few avail at 50A.

JST’s that can go to 100A is a unicorn and only early Tesla’s with the dual charger option can utilize them...
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:10 PM   #17
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not_this_shit_again.jpg
I refrained from something similar the other day. Perhaps I shouldn't have.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpo...61&postcount=3

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Was your comment not directed at Tesla choosing to go their own way while other manufacturers settle on one (or maybe two) standard interfaces?

Because that's exactly Apple's thing.
No, the comment was not directed at the ecosystem. It was only directed at a single part of a broader system that serves a universal purpose enabling the system to run that all similar ecosystems also need for the same purpose. It's like if 100 or so years ago Ford decided to use oval shaped fuel fillers, GM selected star shaped fillers, VW chose squares, and so on, to lock you into buying their own brands of fuel.

It's not even like the app store monopoly (from either the developer or consumer perspective) since added third party apps are not required for basic functioning of the phone.
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Old 01-29-2021, 11:36 PM   #18
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Clyde, the problem with your analogy is that It doesn’t account for the expense of building out the high speed charging network. There’s no analog of that in the smartphone world; it’s not like people were standing around saying “I’d buy a smartphone, but I’m worried about charging it when I’m away from home.”

The charger issue was always a chicken/egg problem. Tesla decided to solve the problem by just building both the car and the charger network, and treating the network as a marketing cost for the car. And it worked.

Ideally, I guess someone else would have stepped up and built the charger network, to a neutral standard everyone could use. Or maybe the government would have done that.

They didn’t, though; so finally someone figured out how to crack the code and build both EVs and a charging network, and we’re...mad at them for that?
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Old 01-29-2021, 11:59 PM   #19
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Clyde, the problem with your analogy is that It doesn’t account for the expense of building out the high speed charging network.
It is EXACTLY the same thing.

As I said...

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Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
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Old 01-30-2021, 09:12 AM   #20
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IDK, man, I really don’t understand your point. In the cellphone power context, what is the analog with the high speed charger network? And also I am confused because I thought JV originally brought this analogy up to say it was hypocritical to be pissed at Tesla and ok with Apple.

There is a somewhat complex analogy you could draw between the buildout of incompatible 3G networks, the transition to 4G, and the role of subsidized locked handsets, but that has such different market and technology dynamics that I don’t think it’s particularly helpful. Among many other things, while phones are expensive, they pale in comparison to the cost of service; no one is trying to build an EV network and give away cheap cars as an incentive to subscribe to it.

Ultimately I agree with you that multiple standards are probably untenable. There will be convergence at some point. Either Tesla and other OEMs will get serious about long-rumored agreements to share the Tesla network, or Tesla will make CCS adapters and switch over to CCS here, too — or some combination.

But you’ve been slagging Tesla in particular for the decision to build a proprietary charging network for years. I just think you’re wrong about that; the proprietary network made sense for Tesla, made sense for Tesla’s customers, and was one of the key drivers to allowing Tesla to sell half a million cars last year.

And without that success, there’s NFW GM would be seriously talking about transitioning to full EV by 2035.

In fact, I’m going to say that when the story of the EV transition is written, the Supercharger network will be one of the main inflection points (along with Dieselgate, maybe, but only because Dieselgate gave VW an economic incentive it did not otherwise have to invest in a charging network).
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