Gm makes an intelligent move? Wow.

[JST]

Originally Posted by blee

Question: Which division (other than Saab) would you kill? Pontiac, for their habitual under-delivery of driving excitement? Buick, for having a muddy vision statement and turning out cars that match? Or Saturn, perhaps for the same crime? I think we can all agree that Caddy and Chevy are staying firmly put.

Saturn, Buick or Pontiac--to some extent, each of these brands has strengths, but I don't see space for all three. I guess they way that they are pitched now, you have Buick (American luxury, but less luxurious than Cadillac), Pontiac (American performance, but cheap, though not as cheap as Chevy), and Saturn (import fighter).

Working through it, Saturn is the easy choice, because their product portfolio is so weak. But GM's plan to expand Opel cross-polination makes some sense. Pontiac might be the right call. Chevy already has an American performance portfolio, and this could be expanded. Buick could also be pitched in this direction, to restore its luster.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by blee

Question: Which division (other than Saab) would you kill? Pontiac, for their habitual under-delivery of driving excitement? Buick, for having a muddy vision statement and turning out cars that match? Or Saturn, perhaps for the same crime? I think we can all agree that Caddy and Chevy are staying firmly put.

obviously, i'm not a business dude, but here's what i'd do:

i'd give control of SAAB to Opel and from now on never give SAAB any autonomy. every single vehicle they make has to be an Opel re-badged for the US. their vehicles right now are dull and they completely missed the boat on AWD.

OR:

merge SAAB and Saturn. immediately. erase Saturn altogether, but expand the SAAB product line to include Saturn's portfolio but with nicer interiors and the same level of customer service.

THEN:

kill off pontiac. pontiac is redundant with Chevy SS subline of cars/trucks. just get rid of it.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by JST

Saturn, Buick or Pontiac--to some extent, each of these brands has strengths, but I don't see space for all three. I guess they way that they are pitched now, you have Buick (American luxury, but less luxurious than Cadillac), Pontiac (American performance, but cheap, though not as cheap as Chevy), and Saturn (import fighter).

Working through it, Saturn is the easy choice, because their product portfolio is so weak. But GM's plan to expand Opel cross-polination makes some sense. Pontiac might be the right call. Chevy already has an American performance portfolio, and this could be expanded. Buick could also be pitched in this direction, to restore its luster.

i was typing as you posted. if you and i think alike, it must be pretty obvious that Pontiac, Saturn and Buick need to get cut and SAAB needs to be pumped up with products from those three into a cohesive product line that hits the low end of the market more as well as the higher end market. the 9-5 is a pathetic uplevel car and the 9-3 is too damn expensive.

[JST]

Originally Posted by lemming

i was typing as you posted. if you and i think alike, it must be pretty obvious that Pontiac, Saturn and Buick need to get cut and SAAB needs to be pumped up with products from those three into a cohesive product line that hits the low end of the market more as well as the higher end market. the 9-5 is a pathetic uplevel car and the 9-3 is too damn expensive.

I tend to agree, but I think for the domestic market, at least, Buick or Pontiac has greater brand equity than Saab. Other than the solid blue-staters-in-a-red-state that live in my neighborhood, who seem universally attracted to 9-3s, and mbr, I can't figure out who buys Saabs.

I also don't think there's enough product in the Saab lineup to justify expanding it. The only unique product that Saab offers is the 9-5, which, as you point out, is really long in tooth and hardly worth keeping.

[FC]

Originally Posted by JST

I tend to agree, but I think for the domestic market, at least, Buick or Pontiac has greater brand equity than Saab. Other than the solid blue-staters-in-a-red-state that live in my neighborhood, who seem universally attracted to 9-3s, and mbr, I can't figure out who buys Saabs.

I also don't think there's enough product in the Saab lineup to justify expanding it. The only unique product that Saab offers is the 9-5, which, as you point out, is really long in tooth and hardly worth keeping.

For the record, I hate Saabs. I just got one because it's a prettier version of the Impreza, that's all. I echo all your comments re: the car line up. In addition, their dealers are crap.

I worked at a consulting firm that specialized in the automotive industry. I had lunch with one of the partners on day (1999) and we talked about brand images, etc. He said Saab yearned to be perceived as "the car wealthy people buy who don't want to show off that they have money."

It was a fun internship. They had the COOLEST posters all over that place.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by blee

Question: Which division (other than Saab) would you kill? Pontiac, for their habitual under-delivery of driving excitement? Buick, for having a muddy vision statement and turning out cars that match? Or Saturn, perhaps for the same crime? I think we can all agree that Caddy and Chevy are staying firmly put.

Buick, definitely Buick. Nothing exciting ever came in a Buick package and never will. Their market niche is the grayhairs that used to buy Caddy CDV and SDV's. I suppose GM will keep it around so the grayhairs have something to buy. Maybe a better move would be to quit offering a Buick version of any SUV or minivan (Rendezvous, Rainier, etc).

[lemming]

Originally Posted by Fernando

For the record, I hate Saabs. I just got one because it's a prettier version of the Impreza, that's all. I echo all your comments re: the car line up. In addition, their dealers are crap.

I worked at a consulting firm that specialized in the automotive industry. I had lunch with one of the partners on day (1999) and we talked about brand images, etc. He said Saab yearned to be perceived as "the car wealthy people buy who don't want to show off that they have money."

It was a fun internship. They had the COOLEST posters all over that place.

SAAB and volvo are perceived to be less flashy ways to show wealth, but SAAB targets people who explicitly choose to show up in driveways in something that is different from the masses.

[Plaz]

Originally Posted by lemming

SAAB and volvo are perceived to be less flashy ways to show wealth, but SAAB targets people who explicitly choose to show up in driveways in something that looks like ass.

Fixed.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by SteveM

Buick, definitely Buick. Nothing exciting ever came in a Buick package and never will. Their market niche is the grayhairs that used to buy Caddy CDV and SDV's. I suppose GM will keep it around so the grayhairs have something to buy. Maybe a better move would be to quit offering a Buick version of any SUV or minivan (Rendezvous, Rainier, etc).

Buick has a reason, a purpose and a very loyal customer base. Their main problem is that their customers are rapidly aging and won't be buying many more cars before they stop buying stuff altogether. It's the same problem that Cadillac began trying to deal with about 15 years ago and is now beginning to deal with effectively. GM's biggest short term problem is regaining mindshare in the compact, mid and full size budget/value segments. That's Chevy and Pontiac.

[Rob]

I am guessing you guys that are bashing Buick haven't been in the new Buicks. They aren't something I would be interested in, but I think they are way better than they used to be. There is a market out there for that kind of car, it's just not us. It's not supposed to be driving excitement, it's supposed to be good ole 'merican seperation from the road luxury.

Saturn the import fighter? They just announced that Chevy is the import fighter yesterday - value and quality, right? Saturn is so weak, there isn't much reason to keep them going imo. Pontiac also seems redundant to me. Buick does not. At least it does not now that oldsmobile is gone.