new cars with manual transmission options

[blee]

I think the future will involve not just automation within the vehicle, but connectedness from the infrastructure itself. We will eventually all be driving on "smart roads" that help to coordinate all of these cars. It'll probably start with smart highways, where you will have to drive yourself (like, actually touch the steering wheel and pedals...ugh) to the on ramp, then let Big Brother take over. You'll have to take over once you're off of the grid again. Eventually, even the small access roads will be connected, and "driving" will be a matter of getting in your vehicle and entering your destination.

In the U.S., where we're still relatively spread out, I don't think full automation is going to happen for several generations, and I highly doubt that things like trains and buses will replace cars. But urban centers and our interstate system will probably go full-Skynet well before we're too old to drive.

[JST]

Yes and no. There’s been radio spectrum assigned for “smart roads” (or vehicle to infrastructure, V2I) for 20 years now.

Cadillac and Audi are the only ones with vehicles capable of doing DSRC now, if I recall correctly. The problem is—who wants to build all that smart infrastructure? Who wants to maintain it? Who will upgrade it after it’s obsolete?

My guess is that the way forward with automated cars lies in on-board processing intelligence with relatively minimal network required, and what is needed will largely be provided via commercial cellular or unlicensed (Wi-Fi) infrastructure.

[blee]

Originally Posted by JST

Yes and no. There’s been radio spectrum assigned for “smart roads” (or vehicle to infrastructure, V2I) for 20 years now.

Cadillac and Audi are the only ones with vehicles capable of doing DSRC now, if I recall correctly. The problem is—who wants to build all that smart infrastructure? Who wants to maintain it? Who will upgrade it after it’s obsolete?

My guess is that the way forward with automated cars lies in on-board processing intelligence with relatively minimal network required, and what is needed will largely be provided via commercial cellular or unlicensed (Wi-Fi) infrastructure.

Meanwhile, we will have things like this:

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-driver-ba...-in-1825622869

The infrastructure would have to be built and maintained at the federal level for it to make any sense. I don't know what would then happen to the public/private arrangements, like toll roads, and of course, where will the money come from? We can't even build a wall these days.

I definitely think the short-term outlook -- say, the next 10-20 years -- will depend on vehicle intelligence without central coordination. But I bet the roads of 2068 will depend on smart infrastructure, more so than smart cars. It will ultimately be easier and more efficient to depend on a series of centrally managed sensors and directors than thousands-to-millions of individual vehicles, each with sensors and electronics that need to function perfectly in order to maintain traffic flow without accidents. It'll be great. We'll all love it.

[JST]

See I actually think things will head in the opposite direction. There’s already a huge push to reassign/repurpose DSRC spectrum because it would be so much more useful even as unlicensed spectrum.

I see vehicles evolving into peer to peer mesh networks based on commercially licensed spectrum. There is zero appetite for new multi billion (or trillion) dollar infrastructure projects, and the budget just doesn’t exist to build it.

Even FAA has concluded that with respect to traffic management for drones, and are leaning on a private-industry model for provisioning those systems.

[blee]

Originally Posted by JST

See I actually think things will head in the opposite direction. There’s already a huge push to reassign/repurpose DSRC spectrum because it would be so much more useful even as unlicensed spectrum.

I see vehicles evolving into peer to peer mesh networks based on commercially licensed spectrum. There is zero appetite for new multi billion (or trillion) dollar infrastructure projects, and the budget just doesn’t exist to build it.

Even FAA has concluded that with respect to traffic management for drones, and are leaning on a private-industry model for provisioning those systems.

You certainly have more visibility on this than I do, and I find your argument interesting. Why not just require smart car brains in all new vehicles at a certain point, and just fold the costs and liabilities into the car ownership experience? I wonder how insurance companies will take on that sort of thing, and how collisions will be adjudicated by the police and judicial system.

I also wonder if that would lead to significant growth in Waymo-like ventures, where a corporation owns the transportation assets and just sells rides. The consumer would be protected from the liabilities due to equipment failures leading to accidents, and tech advancements would be driven by volume buyers. Either way, it's going to be pretty weird driving next to driverless cars, because I intend to stick to my guns until I'm forced to "upgrade." Or until I get into my first accident with a driverless vehicle, and it's immediately my fault.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by JST

Yes and no. There’s been radio spectrum assigned for “smart roads” (or vehicle to infrastructure, V2I) for 20 years now.

Cadillac and Audi are the only ones with vehicles capable of doing DSRC now, if I recall correctly. The problem is—who wants to build all that smart infrastructure? Who wants to maintain it? Who will upgrade it after it’s obsolete?

My guess is that the way forward with automated cars lies in on-board processing intelligence with relatively minimal network required, and what is needed will largely be provided via commercial cellular or unlicensed (Wi-Fi) infrastructure.

Don’t know anything about this and read it quickly but after reading reviews of the new E class it seems of have the ability to read from other cars.

Again this is a side note ... I really didn’t read the comments above


Back to watching a funny movie ...

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by blee

You certainly have more visibility on this than I do, and I find your argument interesting. Why not just require smart car brains in all new vehicles at a certain point, and just fold the costs and liabilities into the car ownership experience? I wonder how insurance companies will take on that sort of thing, and how collisions will be adjudicated by the police and judicial system.

I also wonder if that would lead to significant growth in Waymo-like ventures, where a corporation owns the transportation assets and just sells rides. The consumer would be protected from the liabilities due to equipment failures leading to accidents, and tech advancements would be driven by volume buyers. Either way, it's going to be pretty weird driving next to driverless cars, because I intend to stick to my guns until I'm forced to "upgrade." Or until I get into my first accident with a driverless vehicle, and it's immediately my fault.

I don't think that driverless cars that rely on external infrastructure can readily coexist with driven vehicles.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by Theo

I would not consider PDC a safely feature but yeah I won’t have a car without it any more. I’m soooooo used to it. That’s one beep I can handle.

This lightly used-M2 seems like a good deal. But no PDC. http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1480563

[Theo]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

This lightly used-M2 seems like a good deal. But no PDC. http://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1480563

That is a good deal but I have my sites set on a new or slightly used LCI 2018. I like the updates( larger nav, better dash, adaptive leds etc).

I am awaiting the US pricing due next week on the comp pkg and how that effects current 2018’s. I even saw an M2 ad at EAG with a price reduction this week. That never happens with EAG and is telling of where the N55 M2 pricing is heading.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by Theo

That is a good deal but I have my sites set on a new or slightly used LCI 2018. I like the updates( larger nav, better dash, adaptive leds etc).

I am awaiting the US pricing due next week on the comp pkg and how that effects current 2018’s. I even saw an M2 ad at EAG with a price reduction this week. That never happens with EAG and is telling of where the N55 M2 pricing is heading.

Cool!