MCS and alternatives for gf

equ · 01-21-2011, 08:19 PM

I thought I'd move the discussion that started brewing around our failed Honda here.

Excuse the low end questioning in the other thread: "What is JCW and should we get it?"... We were trying to get the car into the shop, and with that done, we ran out to snag a test drive. I was typing those as I headed out the door, as I saw there were a couple of JCW cars at that particular dealer that were not sky high in price. Current status (still not knowing diagnosis on said Honda):

- I drove a MCS in December by myself. Didn't do anything special for me, but I thought it was fun and competent, and generally very good for a FWD, but with wooden ride quality. I might have put up a small post about it, but can't find it now.

- We both drove a JCW today. I assume 'factory', but I don't know the difference between factory vs. kit or whatever you were referring to. Actually asked salesperson to drive the JCW last, but this is how it worked out. Always better to start on the lower power or lower spec car.

1. Gf liked it. A lot.

2. I liked it, a lot. A lot more than I expected. Excellent steering, shifting, downshifting. Quite fast. A more dicey sort of fun when the summer dunlops spin a good amount on 23F pavement or whatever black ice we happened to hit (this only happened on my drive, gf seemed to have a calmer experience

). Tractable car at low throttle/speeds. Nice delivery. The issue is that when you really get on it, especially with improper tires, it seems to lose a good amount of traction. Rubbery but precise shifter.

3. It had been a year and a half since I'd experienced a pothole explosion (the sale of my 330i). Runflats still suck. It looks like it could happen on a daily basis with this car. Ironically, I didn't find the suspension too stiff or 'wooden', it was fine.

4. The exhaust. Fun at first, but a bit drone-y, even for me. Sounds a little too raucous or aftermarket. Concerned that it could get to us. She didn't seem as worried, but started noticing it after I pointed it out.

We drove the regular MCS after. Clearly the wrong order. Low-option car. 16" all-seasons had less issues with traction and with concrete road joints. Ride about the same, but quieter. Noticeably less power.

Driving the JCW makes me want to chip the audi, though it will never be as direct. It felt like the JCW turbo was always on boil, the delay was really small.

We have some research and some thinking to do. She hates RFT's. She hates switching tires (especially as we have a quattro in the stable). She liked the JCW and the toys in it, but of course it costs a good bit more money. We could fix/stay with the Honda, we could go with an alternative gti/sx4/new civic, she could drive my a4 or we could spring for a MCS or better, JCW. All options are open. Like a true perseveration thread, this touches upon our long-term plans together, if we decide continue with three cars or not, etc. Certainly a messy decision.

I see why you guys are all into them. They really are fun. I nailed the heel/toe downshifts within seconds of starting the JCW driving. To bang a good downshift in the audi takes much more focus (soggy throttle), the porsche requires threshold levels of braking (high brake pedal). An added bonus for the bmw drivers is the familiar orange instrumentation and OBC. Turn-in is great, but fighting the FWD isn't, the achilles' heel of the whole car. Sort of like the spyder's roof, a car has to have one big catch.

*Plaz* · 01-21-2011, 08:31 PM

I'm not going to pretend the torque steer isn't an issue -- it is.

That being said, given time, you get used to it, and it is consistent and predictable. So you subconsciously become acclimated and able to handle it.

lemming · 01-21-2011, 08:44 PM

cool.

nice to read your thoughts on this.

JST · 01-21-2011, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plaz

I'm not going to pretend the torque steer isn't an issue -- it is.

That being said, given time, you get used to it, and it is consistent and predictable. So you subconsciously become acclimated and able to handle it.

I read a suggestion on Motoringfile that the current computer programming (which is designed to kill torque steer) is backwards-compatible with the older R56s.

http://www.motoringfile.com/2010/10/...steer-fix-r56/

I imagine that Sarafil probably knows someone that could get this done.

equ · 01-21-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JST

You've got to specify what you mean by JCW. I've never driven the dealer-installed power package, but I never really felt like my car needed more power so I didn't really see the point of spending the coin on the upgrade. The factory, full on JCW car goes to 11 compared to the S, but IMHO it trades a smidge of low end driveability for the extra power...and it has a LOT more torque steer.

For what you are looking for (a commuter primarily driven by your gf), I'd guess that the R56S in standard trim is just about perfect. The JCW package is probably overkill, and the JCW car is really overkill.

You are spot on. JCW is overkill for her mega-mile commute (with 17's, summer tires, extra cost, etc). But we found (and drove) this one, and I really quite enjoyed it:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r_id=288981048

The cream/white door insert clashed a bit with the red seats, but otherwise it's a very nice build. I'd prefer red, blue, green etc, but white is ok with red leather/cloth seats. By now I've done some research and see that LSD is no longer available. This car has pretty much every option but nav.

However, as a porsche upgrade is potentially in the cards as well, it's quite a bit of expense (along with the new a4 we bought a little over a year ago)... Something has got to go, perhaps I could sell the a4. Of course gf wouldn't let me sell the a4 to get her a JCW, that's not how she operates.

I mean I quite like the a4, but I get to have one car I love already. The a4 has always been a cerebral, rational choice for me. Quiet and competent. Efficient long distance machine and unbeatable snow tank. It only really becomes fun in the white stuff (like a random squall this afternoon) or some horrible rainstorm. When the going gets tough, that car wakes up and starts kicking butt.

And then how do we go skiing? In a mini? Will it even be as good as a heavier, RWD 330i in deeper snow. Doubt it. I guess then I could approximate the FC strategy and buy a cheaper, beater awd/winter car to skiing or to beat around in.

JST · 01-21-2011, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by equ

You are spot on. JCW is overkill for her mega-mile commute (with 17's, summer tires, extra cost, etc). But we found (and drove) this one, and I really quite enjoyed it:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...r_id=288981048

The cream/white door insert clashed a bit with the red seats, but otherwise it's a very nice build. I'd prefer red, blue, green etc, but white is ok with red leather/cloth seats. By now I've done some research and see that LSD is no longer available. This car has pretty much every option but nav.

However, as a porsche upgrade is potentially in the cards as well, it's quite a bit of expense (along with the new a4 we bought a little over a year ago)... Something has got to go, perhaps I could sell the a4. Of course gf wouldn't let me sell the a4 to get her a JCW, that's not how she operates.

I mean I quite like the a4, but I get to have one car I love already. The a4 has always been a cerebral, rational choice for me. Quiet and competent. Efficient long distance machine and unbeatable snow tank. It only really becomes fun in the white stuff (like a random squall this afternoon) or some horrible rainstorm. When the going gets tough, that car wakes up and starts kicking butt.

And then how do we go skiing? In a mini? Will it even be as good as a heavier, RWD 330i in deeper snow. Doubt it. I guess then I could approximate the FC strategy and buy a cheaper, beater awd/winter car to skiing or to beat around in.

Those cream door cards are kind of rough with the red.

Here are a couple of options:

Sell the A4. Get a (used) JCW Clubman + snow tires for skiing/gf. Get a new Cayman S + snow tires for your daily driver.

Or.

Sell the A4. Get a Countryman All4 for skiing/gf. Get a year old Cayman S + snow tires for your daily driver.

Or.

Keep the A4, keep the Porsche, settle for an '07 MCS for gf. You can probably get one of those for 10K less than the JCW you linked to, and it will be largely the same car. If you really jones for the extra power, you can get the 189 hp kit installed.

SARAFIL · 01-22-2011, 01:26 AM

I wouldn't sell the Audi or Porsche to get the JCW. I agree that your best bet is to pick up a used MCS, you can get a 2008-2009 for $18k-$20k with low miles.

RMR · 01-22-2011, 02:26 AM

Just a question.....Have you test driven a current gen Civic Si.....2010? I bet your local honda dealer can give massive discounts.

SARAFIL · 01-22-2011, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RMR

Just a question.....Have you test driven a current gen Civic Si.....2010? I bet your local honda dealer can give massive discounts.

that's crazy talk!

JST · 01-22-2011, 11:12 AM

I've driven the current gen Si. I was pretty underwhelmed, but I generally dislike the way Hondas drive and feel, so that's no surprise. My big complaints were that the car felt terribly cheap overall, and that the engine was gutless in low RPM driving, especially compared to the Mini.

Bottom line? The Civic feels Japanese. The Mini feels German. I'll take the latter every time, but that's just me.

01-21-2011, 08:19 PM	#1
equ Alphanumeric Join Date: Aug 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: 981S, 340i Posts: 9,584	MCS and alternatives for gf I thought I'd move the discussion that started brewing around our failed Honda here. Excuse the low end questioning in the other thread: "What is JCW and should we get it?"... We were trying to get the car into the shop, and with that done, we ran out to snag a test drive. I was typing those as I headed out the door, as I saw there were a couple of JCW cars at that particular dealer that were not sky high in price. Current status (still not knowing diagnosis on said Honda): - I drove a MCS in December by myself. Didn't do anything special for me, but I thought it was fun and competent, and generally very good for a FWD, but with wooden ride quality. I might have put up a small post about it, but can't find it now. - We both drove a JCW today. I assume 'factory', but I don't know the difference between factory vs. kit or whatever you were referring to. Actually asked salesperson to drive the JCW last, but this is how it worked out. Always better to start on the lower power or lower spec car. 1. Gf liked it. A lot. 2. I liked it, a lot. A lot more than I expected. Excellent steering, shifting, downshifting. Quite fast. A more dicey sort of fun when the summer dunlops spin a good amount on 23F pavement or whatever black ice we happened to hit (this only happened on my drive, gf seemed to have a calmer experience ). Tractable car at low throttle/speeds. Nice delivery. The issue is that when you really get on it, especially with improper tires, it seems to lose a good amount of traction. Rubbery but precise shifter. 3. It had been a year and a half since I'd experienced a pothole explosion (the sale of my 330i). Runflats still suck. It looks like it could happen on a daily basis with this car. Ironically, I didn't find the suspension too stiff or 'wooden', it was fine. 4. The exhaust. Fun at first, but a bit drone-y, even for me. Sounds a little too raucous or aftermarket. Concerned that it could get to us. She didn't seem as worried, but started noticing it after I pointed it out. We drove the regular MCS after. Clearly the wrong order. Low-option car. 16" all-seasons had less issues with traction and with concrete road joints. Ride about the same, but quieter. Noticeably less power. Driving the JCW makes me want to chip the audi, though it will never be as direct. It felt like the JCW turbo was always on boil, the delay was really small. We have some research and some thinking to do. She hates RFT's. She hates switching tires (especially as we have a quattro in the stable). She liked the JCW and the toys in it, but of course it costs a good bit more money. We could fix/stay with the Honda, we could go with an alternative gti/sx4/new civic, she could drive my a4 or we could spring for a MCS or better, JCW. All options are open. Like a true perseveration thread, this touches upon our long-term plans together, if we decide continue with three cars or not, etc. Certainly a messy decision. I see why you guys are all into them. They really are fun. I nailed the heel/toe downshifts within seconds of starting the JCW driving. To bang a good downshift in the audi takes much more focus (soggy throttle), the porsche requires threshold levels of braking (high brake pedal). An added bonus for the bmw drivers is the familiar orange instrumentation and OBC. Turn-in is great, but fighting the FWD isn't, the achilles' heel of the whole car. Sort of like the spyder's roof, a car has to have one big catch.

01-21-2011, 08:44 PM	#3
lemming Western Anomaly Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: White Orca Posts: 16,614	cool. nice to read your thoughts on this. __________________

01-22-2011, 01:26 AM	#7
SARAFIL I like BMWs Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: X5 M50 / M550 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 5,789	I wouldn't sell the Audi or Porsche to get the JCW. I agree that your best bet is to pick up a used MCS, you can get a 2008-2009 for $18k-$20k with low miles. __________________ 2020 X5 M50i -- Alpine White / Coffee Leather 2020 M550i -- Carbon Black / Beige Leather

01-22-2011, 02:26 AM	#8
RMR Crotchety Join Date: Apr 2005 Carmudgeonly Ride: 2020 Honda Civic Hatch Sport Location: Chicago Posts: 941	Just a question.....Have you test driven a current gen Civic Si.....2010? I bet your local honda dealer can give massive discounts. __________________ '20 Honda Civic Hatchback Sport 1.5T '18 Acura TLX A-Spec SH-AWD

01-21-2011, 08:31 PM	#2
Plaz ••••••• Join Date: Oct 2003 Carmudgeonly Ride: '11 1M Location: Churzee Posts: 17,741	I'm not going to pretend the torque steer isn't an issue -- it is. That being said, given time, you get used to it, and it is consistent and predictable. So you subconsciously become acclimated and able to handle it.

01-22-2011, 11:12 AM	#10
JST 195 Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 24,614	I've driven the current gen Si. I was pretty underwhelmed, but I generally dislike the way Hondas drive and feel, so that's no surprise. My big complaints were that the car felt terribly cheap overall, and that the engine was gutless in low RPM driving, especially compared to the Mini. Bottom line? The Civic feels Japanese. The Mini feels German. I'll take the latter every time, but that's just me.