Dial 911

[Nick M3]

So what makes a 2022 GT3 worth close to double that?

[SCA]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

So what makes a 2022 GT3 worth close to double that?

Wish I knew…

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

So what makes a 2022 GT3 worth close to double that?

I asked a very similar question a few years ago (er, 2008 was just "a few years ago," right?) and was never really satisfied by any of the attempts to answer. So, color me intrigued by the possibility of an answer now.

Originally Posted by clyde

Is a 987S (fixed or soft top) really worth $25k+ more than a 986S? Or should that be take all the money that a 986S would run, duplicate that pile, then add another pile that's 1/4 as big as the first pile. Push them all together into a single pile.

Perhaps I'm a little fuzzy right now, but I've been tooling around in a 1991 Miata for the past week. About 108k miles. Original clutch (which is starting to slip). Dead shocks. Misaligned. Shot bushings everywhere. Etc. Maybe it's worth $1,000. It's been a blast. More power would certainly be appreciated, but for the life of me, for third vehicle cruising/fun where it's just about enjoying the ride, I can't think of a reason why I'd want to spend 20x as much for John's Boxster, let alone 45x as much for a 987S.

[John V]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

So what makes a 2022 GT3 worth close to double that?

It has double the number of front control arms, duh.

To Clyde: Whatever happened to that Miata?

Having now owned (and sold) a 986S and a 987S I have some thoughts. The 986S cost me around $21k and I ended up selling it for $17k a few years later but I put several grand into that car in parts and repairs during my ownership. A new soft top, shifter, shocks, brakes, engine mounts (like three of those), AOS, a few other things. The 987S cost me $41k and I ended up selling it for $34k a few years (and many, many more miles) later but I put almost nothing into repairs. Just maintenance, tires and gas. So yeah, it was more expensive but ultimately it cost me less to own. And it was a much more enjoyable vehicle. Nicer inside and out, better fit and finish, quieter and more comfortable, and more fun to drive. Was it five to ten times more fun than an NA Miata? Perhaps not, but fun in different ways and a lot more usable.

[wdc330i]

Did you all see the newspaper piece (Wall Street Journal or NYT) about all the auto industry folks who own and love their NA Miatas?

[clyde]

Originally Posted by John V

It has double the number of front control arms, duh.

To Clyde: Whatever happened to that Miata?

Having now owned (and sold) a 986S and a 987S I have some thoughts. The 986S cost me around $21k and I ended up selling it for $17k a few years later but I put several grand into that car in parts and repairs during my ownership. A new soft top, shifter, shocks, brakes, engine mounts (like three of those), AOS, a few other things. The 987S cost me $41k and I ended up selling it for $34k a few years (and many, many more miles) later but I put almost nothing into repairs. Just maintenance, tires and gas. So yeah, it was more expensive but ultimately it cost me less to own. And it was a much more enjoyable vehicle. Nicer inside and out, better fit and finish, quieter and more comfortable, and more fun to drive. Was it five to ten times more fun than an NA Miata? Perhaps not, but fun in different ways and a lot more usable.

I donated it to the Shawn and Katie Miata Farm right before the virus hit. I think they determined it would not be a good match for the RallyCross program and gave it to someone else who put a little money and time into it to get it roadworthy again, but not 100% sure of that.

Looking at total cost of ownership changes the complexion of the question, but adds other factors like insurance (liability only vs full coverage adds up with years), opportunity costs (if your money is sunk in the car instead of earning through investments, how much you miss out on while you own the car plus how much more in the years after that in missed compounding interest?).

Even so, I'm not saying the newer nicer car isn't worth more than the older, more worn comparison point. I'm trying to find an objective quantifier for that additional worth.

Is a late model Boxster worth 1.1x a $1k beater Miata? Absolutely.

Is it worth 10,000x more? I might be wrong, but I don't think any of would say it is.

Is it worth 100x more? I don't think so, but I suspect some others here may disagree.

Is it worth 50x more? Again, I don't really think so, but maybe persuadable. And I'm probably in a small minority at 50x.

So, what is it that makes it worth 50x more?

Even if I call the Camaro a $50k car, I don't have a satisfying answer for myself as to why it's worth 50x more than the Miata. It's nicer, more comfortable, makes me feel good and silly to drive it much more than the Miata did, I enjoy looking at it more than the Miata, it makes the sounds I want to hear, it pushes me back in the seat the way I want and the Miata never could, it's safer, etc. But...like I said, the answer isn't satisfying.

And tying back to Nick's question...what makes a 2022 GT3 worth twice what that 2018 GT3 sold for? Is it going to be more enjoyable, nicer, have better fit and finish? Be more usable?

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by clyde

I donated it to the Shawn and Katie Miata Farm right before the virus hit. I think they determined it would not be a good match for the RallyCross program and gave it to someone else who put a little money and time into it to get it roadworthy again, but not 100% sure of that.

Looking at total cost of ownership changes the complexion of the question, but adds other factors like insurance (liability only vs full coverage adds up with years), opportunity costs (if your money is sunk in the car instead of earning through investments, how much you miss out on while you own the car plus how much more in the years after that in missed compounding interest?).

Even so, I'm not saying the newer nicer car isn't worth more than the older, more worn comparison point. I'm trying to find an objective quantifier for that additional worth.

Is a late model Boxster worth 1.1x a $1k beater Miata? Absolutely.

Is it worth 10,000x more? I might be wrong, but I don't think any of would say it is.

Is it worth 100x more? I don't think so, but I suspect some others here may disagree.

Is it worth 50x more? Again, I don't really think so, but maybe persuadable. And I'm probably in a small minority at 50x.

So, what is it that makes it worth 50x more?

Even if I call the Camaro a $50k car, I don't have a satisfying answer for myself as to why it's worth 50x more than the Miata. It's nicer, more comfortable, makes me feel good and silly to drive it much more than the Miata did, I enjoy looking at it more than the Miata, it makes the sounds I want to hear, it pushes me back in the seat the way I want and the Miata never could, it's safer, etc. But...like I said, the answer isn't satisfying.

And tying back to Nick's question...what makes a 2022 GT3 worth twice what that 2018 GT3 sold for? Is it going to be more enjoyable, nicer, have better fit and finish? Be more usable?

Eh. I think there's a big difference between discussing classes of cars and comparing similar models.

There is no objective equation that says that we should be driving anything other than a camry.

Also, I think that a $1k absolute shitheap of a Miata isn't really a good ruler. You should at least measure against one that's decent.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

Eh. I think there's a big difference between discussing classes of cars and comparing similar models.

I...don't? Why do you think there should be

Also, I think that a $1k absolute shitheap of a Miata isn't really a good ruler. You should at least measure against one that's decent.

I wouldn't characterize the Miata as an "absolute shitheap" while I was driving it. At the time it died, I don't think it needed more than a fuel filter and 45 minutes to keep going. I just didn't do it. But let's say it was in better shape and I paid market value when I got it.

$3k. Doesn't really change much, does it?

There is no objective equation that says that we should be driving anything other than a camry.

That starts pointing to an answer, but not much. There's something that makes us willing to spend so much more for the cars we buy.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

So what makes a 2022 GT3 worth close to double that?

That pcamart purchase was not me (I always need to buy local).

I think scarcity and arbitrage is 80% of it. And 20% of is that it is an actual mechanical improvement.

But worth twice? That’s just the market. That’s not for true defined parameters. It’s not 2x better. I think it’s like 10% better, if that. Maybe 5% and even then it’s only in the hands of a pro-level racer.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by lemming

But worth twice? That’s just the market. That’s not for true defined parameters. It’s not 2x better. I think it’s like 10% better, if that. Maybe 5% and even then it’s only in the hands of a pro-level racer.

So what is it that compels you to spend two times as many dollars for a 5% improvement that you also seem to saying is an improvement that you will not be able to utilize?