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Old 12-16-2008, 10:43 AM   #1
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Finally drove Wrangler unltd (Rubicon)

I know most don't care, but still.

I drove a completely loaded '09 that was the only one in stock at the dealership that's less a than a mile form work.

In short, going into it, my expectations were so low that I came out pleasantly surprised.

There is a lot that is very different about the car. It's really not big. I'm 5'10" and I was taller than it. The rear seats have very short bottoms and very steep backs - and not a lot of leg room. Cargo behind it is good but not impressive. The front row was better. The doors don't have stops, so the wind caught one and it swang like crazy. Lot's of other quirks and things that remind you this is no ordinary vehicle.

Anyhow, the drive... (and keep in mind I have very little experience driving SUV's) Well, it's is remarkably quiet. Very smooth running at idle. Also, let go of the brake and the car doesn't move - at all. You really have to give it gas for it to move - must be an offroad thing, which makes perfect sense. It isn't that slow. Granted, I immediately changed my driving style to that of a normal car. For average street driving the motor is adequate. Hit the gas and it strains to gain speed quickly, but it is not dangerously slow. I suspect 50-70 acceleration will be poor, but this is a wrangler. At 60mph it also wasn't as noisy or windy as I had expected (and ti was VERY windy yesterday). Amazingly, and I don't care that it was new, that car was completely rattle-free even over railroad tracks. Considering all the removable body parts, this really impressed me. It doens't feel big or very heavy (relative to SUV's). It didn't feel bigger or heavier than the V70R (though much clumsier, of course). Brakes were not good. Not awful, but definitely not good. Also, the lighting was piss poor. It's good that these things can pull off having additional lamps because it will need it. I tried an emergency lane change-type move at ~45mph and it quickly reminds you of what it is and what it isn't. Massive body roll. Still, the car was surprisingly civilized for the big knobby tires it had. Tranny worked fine. Steering was decent.

In other words, since 90% of my driving with this car will be in faoul weather, or with the dog, or with an open top, or towing, or carrying lots of crap, and just about all of it around town, the "performance" of the car is perfectly fine.

In all, I found it to be much more refined than my brother's Cherokee. Considering what this thing can do, that's amazing. Still, it is what it is. I would still go nuts with it as my only car (although I could probably live with one for a few months until the novelty wears off). I would not want to take it on the hwy often or on the kind of drives to Canada we usually do (late at night, everyone is asleep, 75mph+ for hours on interstate hwys). Also, I now realize that it's lunacy to spend big money on these things for the use I would give it.

I still wish I'd had the time to play with the tops, drive it open-air, drop the rear seats, etc. Oh well. That will have to wait.

But it is still a cool car with lots of character and ability that can do a bunch of things. But what is it worth when I can have a used, regular SUV do the things I need to have it do for less? Well, it depends on what I'm willing to pay for what I'd like it to do and what it can do. I'm not so sure yet. Told my wife I drove it in light of the cheap jeep that's for sale and she suddenly started having real questions about our car startegy. I guess she had just been stringing me along all this time since she knew nothing was imminent.

Anyhow, we'll have to talk, but the car didn't make write it off the list. In fact it was a bit better than I had expected.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:09 AM   #2
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I think you nailed it when you said there are other vehicles better suited for whjat you want to do.

If you were a "trails" guy and wanted to join a Jeep club and driver over trees, streams and hook up tow lines all day (like one of our very own here), I'd say go for it, but for carting the dog around on the weekends, I think you'd grow tired of it pretty quickly.

Still, a base jeep with a stick is one of those "pure car" attraction kind of things, so I could you wanting one.
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Old 12-16-2008, 11:15 AM   #3
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There's a Willys Overland parked on the street near my new house. Not sure of the year, but old. Talk about 'basic car.' The same homeowner has a newer Jeep rig with various mods and a license plate that says something like TRED LYT.
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:25 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC View Post
There is a lot that is very different about the car.
Well. . . first of all, it's Jeep, not a car.

The lack of a door stops make some sense when you realize that it's a belt-strap that is simply slipped over a hook that keeps the doors from completely doing a 180. The whole point is that you simply slip the strap off the hook and lift the doors of their hinges. But it is something you have to be mindful off, especially in parking lots.

Are you starting to see why I was suggesting a used base model Unlimited Jeep to keep the price down? Given how "basic" and comparatively unrefined they are, paying new money for them seems nuts to me. And for you, if you're not going to be driving it all the time, then getting one with some extra miles on the odo wouldn't seem to be a big deal to me.

Also, when you're ready to actually pull the trigger on a vehicle of this type, take another look at used prices at that point. They'll probably come down a bit more. I'm see on edmunds.com that the '07 Unlimited X 4WD models have a TMV of $17k. And I really think the Rubicon's extra gizmos would be wasted on your uses.

If you ever make it back to the dealer on a second considering, play with the rest of the Jeep. Try the roof. And either tip the back seat forward or take it out completely. . . there is a ton of room back there with the rear seat folded up.

You're right about the headlights. . . they do suck. In the TJ there is a $100 or less conversion to H4 halogens than can be done at home in about 20-30 minutes for significantly better light out put. But I haven't bothered with this yet.

Anyways, cool to hear your thoughts after your drive.

BTW, did you test drive a hard top or soft top?
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Old 12-16-2008, 12:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lupinsea View Post
Well. . . first of all, it's Jeep, not a car.

The lack of a door stops make some sense when you realize that it's a belt-strap that is simply slipped over a hook that keeps the doors from completely doing a 180. The whole point is that you simply slip the strap off the hook and lift the doors of their hinges. But it is something you have to be mindful off, especially in parking lots.

Are you starting to see why I was suggesting a used base model Unlimited Jeep to keep the price down? Given how "basic" and comparatively unrefined they are, paying new money for them seems nuts to me. And for you, if you're not going to be driving it all the time, then getting one with some extra miles on the odo wouldn't seem to be a big deal to me.

Also, when you're ready to actually pull the trigger on a vehicle of this type, take another look at used prices at that point. They'll probably come down a bit more. I'm see on edmunds.com that the '07 Unlimited X 4WD models have a TMV of $17k. And I really think the Rubicon's extra gizmos would be wasted on your uses.

If you ever make it back to the dealer on a second considering, play with the rest of the Jeep. Try the roof. And either tip the back seat forward or take it out completely. . . there is a ton of room back there with the rear seat folded up.

You're right about the headlights. . . they do suck. In the TJ there is a $100 or less conversion to H4 halogens than can be done at home in about 20-30 minutes for significantly better light out put. But I haven't bothered with this yet.

Anyways, cool to hear your thoughts after your drive.

BTW, did you test drive a hard top or soft top?
I drove the hard top.

Yeah, I am definitely looking at used ones for sure. And the doors and other things were not bad things, just different. It was odd and cool. Part of what I meant when I said the car has tons of character.

I was a bit stunned by that nearly new '08 Rubicon being so cheap. But yeah, a Sahara would probably work just fine and there are lots of those. It's not like the economy is going to improve much in the next year.

The dealership was practically begging me for an offer on the one I drove - which is odd considering it was the onlyone they had. But that thing was optioned to the absurd tune of $37K+. They'll have trouble with that jeep.

Anyhow, my wife thinks that while the idea of the wrangler is cool, maybe it's better to wait a few years until the kids are older. In the meantime, she is on board with a cheap, used SUV - something under $10K or so.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:36 PM   #6
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FC, based on your review it sounds to me like it is a relatively poor fit for your family-vehicle requirements.
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Old 12-16-2008, 01:48 PM   #7
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FC, based on your review it sounds to me like it is a relatively poor fit for your family-vehicle requirements.
True, except it wouldn't be a family vehicle, nor would any other SUV that would not be replacing the V70R.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:08 PM   #8
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FC, based on your review it sounds to me like it is a relatively poor fit for your family-vehicle requirements.
For that matter my Jeep is a poor fit for my own family-vehicle requirements. But it has its purpose and usefulness. Not to mention I enjoy it for what it is, what it can do, and where I can go with it.
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:12 PM   #9
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Yes, I understand your point of view. But you seem to be an extremely dedicated off-road enthusiast who has access to some proper terrain to enjoy a vehicle like a Jeep. FC is talking about using this as a general "around town" kind of vehicle and he lives in New England. Not exactly prime off-roading territory. Do you see the difference?
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Old 12-16-2008, 03:22 PM   #10
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Yes, I understand your point of view. But you seem to be an extremely dedicated off-road enthusiast who has access to some proper terrain to enjoy a vehicle like a Jeep. FC is talking about using this as a general "around town" kind of vehicle and he lives in New England. Not exactly prime off-roading territory. Do you see the difference?
So, out of curiosity, other than it's more expensive than say, an '02 JGC or 4Runner, how is the JK, in your opinion, a worse vehicle than those? And this goes for anyone who constantly questions my irrational desire for a JK.
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