Dial 911

[Alan]

Originally Posted by robg

Given how crazy the used market is in general and the 911 market in particular I'm surprised its not already sold (makes me think there's probably some issue i'm not aware of).

Maybe because it is a base not an S

[robg]

Originally Posted by Alan

Maybe because it is a base not an S

Interesting...looks like PCNA issued a stop sale to dealers on certain used cars with sport chrono (which the car in that listing has):
https://www.businessinsider.com/pors...anamera-2021-1

Looks like a concern over a potential emissions issue. Also explains why i've seen so few CPO 991s for sale. Not sure what that does to the market dynamics; on one hand it means that there are probably less for sale than there otherwise would be but on the other hand maybe it scares away potential buyers as well.

As far as it not being an "S", I'm not sure I care about the 6 piston front brakes, extra 50 hp and quad exhaust. My memory of driving a base 991.1 was that it had just the right amount of power. Of course, I wouldn't say no those things, either, if the price delta is small enough.

In thinking about it, though, if I'm going to spend 60k+ on a used car I want a warranty.

[equ]

The 991.1 non-S is a fun car and one that I considered while I was shopping for my 981S. They are both 3.4 and as far as I could tell, until 4.5k or above, the torque is similar with the 981 having lower weight, the 3.4 in the 911 does breathe a bit better at the upper revs where the 981 is a bit 'docked'. It is definitely not a low-end torquey experience, while faster in some ways it's similar to driving a 981 base, very revvy and tuned feeling and a gearbox that you'll need to work. I would still consider them though 991.1S would have a clear torque advantage. I think it would be in the 991.2's, with the turbo oomph, where the base would be more than fine. These are fine too, just realize it's a bit soft in lower rpms, softer even than the 981S when adjusted for weight. The 997.2, which is unfindable, had a much stouter lower band with 3.6 instead of 3.4 and possible lower gearing. Of course, completely different chassis and interior.

[robg]

Originally Posted by equ

The 991.1 non-S is a fun car and one that I considered while I was shopping for my 981S. They are both 3.4 and as far as I could tell, until 4.5k or above, the torque is similar with the 981 having lower weight, the 3.4 in the 911 does breathe a bit better at the upper revs where the 981 is a bit 'docked'. It is definitely not a low-end torquey experience, while faster in some ways it's similar to driving a 981 base, very revvy and tuned feeling and a gearbox that you'll need to work. I would still consider them though 991.1S would have a clear torque advantage. I think it would be in the 991.2's, with the turbo oomph, where the base would be more than fine. These are fine too, just realize it's a bit soft in lower rpms, softer even than the 981S when adjusted for weight. The 997.2, which is unfindable, had a much stouter lower band with 3.6 instead of 3.4 and possible lower gearing. Of course, completely different chassis and interior.

Thanks! Yeah I probably should consider the 981S as well. I just love the 911 looks (and 991 gen in particular), and have it in my head that, with the small backseats, I could take my son for short drives (he's 7 so the perfect age to fit in the back of a 911). And yeah, I've noticed that 997.2s are practically non-existent. That being said, for whatever reason, I never really warmed up to the 997 (have driven a few over the years as well). The 991 was the first water-cooled 911 that I really wanted.

[equ]

The 997.2 is not an obvious pick over an 991.1. The 991.1S, like Alan's, is, assuming condition, budget etc match up.

I can still see myself owning and enjoying the 991, with its calmer, more settled chassis compared to the 997 which really feels old school with a short wheelbase, soft front and firm rear. But man, does that 997 drive nice in the wet and the slush... It's in the dry and on bumps that you notice handling deficiencies where the 981/991 just glide over.

It's just annoying that it's not all positive when you go one generation newer. It sucks that the handbrakes and the gearing got worse as well as bottom end torque for the base models, both dropping 0.2L displacement. This applies for both 911's and mid-engined cars. If you have the child use scenario, 911 is a no brainer over the boxster/cayman.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by robg

Interesting...looks like PCNA issued a stop sale to dealers on certain used cars with sport chrono (which the car in that listing has):
https://www.businessinsider.com/pors...anamera-2021-1

Looks like a concern over a potential emissions issue. Also explains why i've seen so few CPO 991s for sale. Not sure what that does to the market dynamics; on one hand it means that there are probably less for sale than there otherwise would be but on the other hand maybe it scares away potential buyers as well.

As far as it not being an "S", I'm not sure I care about the 6 piston front brakes, extra 50 hp and quad exhaust. My memory of driving a base 991.1 was that it had just the right amount of power. Of course, I wouldn't say no those things, either, if the price delta is small enough.

In thinking about it, though, if I'm going to spend 60k+ on a used car I want a warranty.

Yes the stop sale happened a few months ago with no solution yet which makes it a VERY good time to sell a 991S manual with Sports Chrono being inventory is at a super low ...

Originally Posted by equ

The 991.1 non-S is a fun car

I never drove a Base 991.1 and am not an 'S' snob ... for me back in the day I had the 997.1 base and wanted the 991.1 base but Porsche when they introduced the 991 made us wait for a manual, when it finally became available I could not get an allocation for a base which forced me to upgrade to an S ... well not really forced me I was just ready and didn't want to wait any longer.

[JST]

Originally Posted by equ

The 997.2 is not an obvious pick over an 991.1. The 991.1S, like Alan's, is, assuming condition, budget etc match up.

I can still see myself owning and enjoying the 991, with its calmer, more settled chassis compared to the 997 which really feels old school with a short wheelbase, soft front and firm rear. But man, does that 997 drive nice in the wet and the slush... It's in the dry and on bumps that you notice handling deficiencies where the 981/991 just glide over.

It's just annoying that it's not all positive when you go one generation newer. It sucks that the handbrakes and the gearing got worse as well as bottom end torque for the base models, both dropping 0.2L displacement. This applies for both 911's and mid-engined cars. If you have the child use scenario, 911 is a no brainer over the boxster/cayman.

See, I've actually come to believe the opposite. The period during which your kids can fit (not even comfortably, just *at all*) in the back of a 911 is really not very long. Maybe 5-7 years, starting from booster age up through like 10 or so? And 10 is optimistic, if they're kinda small.

But putting kids in the back seat of a 911 means no luggage space except the frunk, and I've sort of thought about using the Boxster with only the frunk and it would be tight (especially with a spare up there).

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight (and now that the kids are old enough to ride in the front of a two-seater), I'm just not sure that owning a 911 is worth the candle for its extra usability as a parent.

The other thing I've been thinking about quite a bit is that it's really pretty weird that the 2 seat Boxster is the "entry level" Porsche, given that it embodies maybe better than anything short of a GT the sort of sporting ethos you expect from a Porsche. It's not a grand tourer, like the 911 has become--it's a sports car. Wild that it's the cheap one.

Porsche's marketing is still so powerful that I want a 911, if only because I've never owned one and it feels like I should. But when I think about actual, day to day usability? I think the Boxster is a better fit. It's more fun and it's arguably better at some daily stuff, because it has two locking trunks. You can't take your 5 year old with you, but you can take your 9 year old, and she'll have a lot more fun than she would jammed in the back of the 911.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

See, I've actually come to believe the opposite. The period during which your kids can fit (not even comfortably, just *at all*) in the back of a 911 is really not very long. Maybe 5-7 years, starting from booster age up through like 10 or so? And 10 is optimistic, if they're kinda small.

But putting kids in the back seat of a 911 means no luggage space except the frunk, and I've sort of thought about using the Boxster with only the frunk and it would be tight (especially with a spare up there).

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight (and now that the kids are old enough to ride in the front of a two-seater), I'm just not sure that owning a 911 is worth the candle for its extra usability as a parent.

The other thing I've been thinking about quite a bit is that it's really pretty weird that the 2 seat Boxster is the "entry level" Porsche, given that it embodies maybe better than anything short of a GT the sort of sporting ethos you expect from a Porsche. It's not a grand tourer, like the 911 has become--it's a sports car. Wild that it's the cheap one.

Porsche's marketing is still so powerful that I want a 911, if only because I've never owned one and it feels like I should. But when I think about actual, day to day usability? I think the Boxster is a better fit. It's more fun and it's arguably better at some daily stuff, because it has two locking trunks. You can't take your 5 year old with you, but you can take your 9 year old, and she'll have a lot more fun than she would jammed in the back of the 911.

The whole "young children can ONLY be in a back seat" things was a bunch of bullshit 20 years ago. It's only gotten bullshittier since with newer cars.

There may be a handful of cars with seat belts that can't be properly fitted/routed with boosters seats and some kids and/or have first gen airbags that are too powerful with seats that can't be positioned rearward enough to keep the kid out of crushable range, but they are not plentiful.

[Alan]

Originally Posted by JST

See, I've actually come to believe the opposite. The period during which your kids can fit (not even comfortably, just *at all*) in the back of a 911 is really not very long. Maybe 5-7 years, starting from booster age up through like 10 or so? And 10 is optimistic, if they're kinda small.

But putting kids in the back seat of a 911 means no luggage space except the frunk, and I've sort of thought about using the Boxster with only the frunk and it would be tight (especially with a spare up there).

Anyway, with the benefit of hindsight (and now that the kids are old enough to ride in the front of a two-seater), I'm just not sure that owning a 911 is worth the candle for its extra usability as a parent.

The other thing I've been thinking about quite a bit is that it's really pretty weird that the 2 seat Boxster is the "entry level" Porsche, given that it embodies maybe better than anything short of a GT the sort of sporting ethos you expect from a Porsche. It's not a grand tourer, like the 911 has become--it's a sports car. Wild that it's the cheap one.

Porsche's marketing is still so powerful that I want a 911, if only because I've never owned one and it feels like I should. But when I think about actual, day to day usability? I think the Boxster is a better fit. It's more fun and it's arguably better at some daily stuff, because it has two locking trunks. You can't take your 5 year old with you, but you can take your 9 year old, and she'll have a lot more fun than she would jammed in the back of the 911.

Sounds like good justification not to get a 911, you’ve worked it out though you also are going to miss out on a really cool car ...

Neither car can be justified, they are sports cars but there is something cool about buying a brand you enjoy in a different version, in other words you did the boxster, maybe now is the time to buy a 911 ... maybe not

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by Alan

Sounds like good justification not to get a 911, you’ve worked it out though you also are going to miss out on a really cool car ...

Neither car can be justified, they are sports cars but here is something cool about buying a brand you enjoy in a different version, in other words you did the boxster, maybe now is the time to buy a 911 ... maybe not

I totally get this. YOLO.