Feels like I've been here before

[Biggins]

Still no change!?

At this point, GM may stop making the Camaro by the time you're ready. Keep saving and find a C7!

[clyde]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Still no change!?

At this point, GM may stop making the Camaro by the time you're ready. Keep saving and find a C7!

I’m ready. And have been. Just not willing to pay more than I think I really need to and travel a ridiculous distance to do so just to get it done now.

There’s a new one at or on the way to a VA dealer (that’s been at a dealer in New Hampshire since March)and I’ve been trying to talk to them, but they flat out refuse to talk to me without me making the 100 mile round trip to visit in person.

Fuck that and fuck them. OTOH, they have four more cars inbound and I’d rather buy one of them than the one from NH. So, we’ll see.

In the past two weeks, inventory has been rising faster than they’re being snapped up. They stop 2020 production in a couple weeks and start 2021. 21s add an automatic transmission option with the 1LE package, so I expect production of sticks to go down.

I don’t need the car anytime soon, so I’m not in a rush to buy something other than to put it all behind me. Maybe incentives on 2020s start increasing soon? Carvana gave me a $19k offer for the first time today. A few dealers I’ve spoken to recently have not balked at matching Carvana offers. So, I’m feeling okay to continue sitting on the car for now if nothing shows up to buy.

[equ]

How many dealers have you contacted (email or phone) in the last ten months? Ten? Fifteen? You know the options, pricing details and market supply/demand for these specific models better than they do. Why would they even sit at the poker table with you? They are going to spend a good bit of time but not make much money, if any. They'd rather wait around for an easier fish to take their bait.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by equ

How many dealers have you contacted (email or phone) in the last ten months? Ten? Fifteen? You know the options, pricing details and market supply/demand for these specific models better than they do. Why would they even sit at the poker table with you? They are going to spend a good bit of time but not make much money, if any. They'd rather wait around for an easier fish to take their bait.

How would they know how many dealers I've spoken with, how well I know the market, etc? This is how it played. Paraphrased, but not by much:

9:30am - Me : I'm interested in this Camaro and prepared to buy today. Is it available?

10:15am - Them: Yes it's available. What time can you be here to discuss payment options?

10:25am - Me: I'd be trading in [my car's details with enough info that 75% of dealers respond to with a number]. Your website's not clear on how much you are asking for the car and what is/is not included. It's a 100+ mile round trip to your store and I'll leave immediately if you give me the sense that we'll be close enough to make a deal.

9:45am following day - Them: I can only tell you how much we might offer if you come in. What time can I expect you?

9:50am - Me: I understand you can't guarantee an offer and any number you would be tentative until you see the car, but getting a ballpark figure by email or phone has not been an issue the last few times I've traded in cars. I'd also still like to hear what you want for your car. As I said yesterday, I really want to buy this car and will head down there right now to make it happen if you can give me some confidence that I won't be wasting my time.

No response. And that was over a week ago.

I (expected?) hoped the car would sell last weekend or early this week so I could reach back out and transition to talking about one of the inbound cars they have on the way, but the car was still for sale as of this morning, so

I've had plenty of responses in the past along the lines of, "We may be able to go as high as $X on your car if it's perfect, but it will probably closer to $Y...less if it looks like it's been in a crash or might need significant reconditioning," and "The price is what you see on the website. You always have more leverage if you're here in person, but that's the best I can do unless you come in."

Almost all have made repeated efforts to get me to visit (even some that are hundreds of miles away), but still answered questions and kept me engaged.

A few have gotten belligerent and tried bullying me into giving them more info than I want and then berated me about how I don't know how buying/selling cars works.

Occasionally, some just never respond to initial inquiries.

I have never had someone refuse to answer questions, refuse to name a price on their car (not even full MSRP plus fees), and completely fail to deliver a sales experience.

I genuinely don't get it.

[ff]

Originally Posted by clyde

I genuinely don't get it.

That's a bit frustrating, but for every person that's serious about remotely initiating a transaction in good faith, they probably get 100 people that are just casting fishing lines. And they also know that if they can get someone to drive a long distance to look at a more limited edition car, then they know you're pretty serious about it and that will put the bargaining chips in their favor right from the start. Because you're probably not going home empty handed.

If you were buying a Sonic or Tahoe, I'll bet they'd negotiate all day long via email.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by ff

That's a bit frustrating, but for every person that's serious about remotely initiating a transaction in good faith, they probably get 100 people that are just casting fishing lines. And they also know that if they can get someone to drive a long distance to look at a more limited edition car, then they know you're pretty serious about it and that will put the bargaining chips in their favor right from the start. Because you're probably not going home empty handed.

If you were buying a Sonic or Tahoe, I'll bet they'd negotiate all day long via email.

Yeah, uh, no.

COVID has changed things. A lot.

Dealers have dumped tons of money into third-party platforms to help them conduct and complete online sales. Showroom traffic is still down substantially.

While I'm sure the online inquiry conversion rate is small, the in-person conversion rate is not large, but each in-person engagement takes vastly more time than online engagement. And, again, COVID has changed things including the ratio between these.

This car is not a highly sought, hard to find, limited production kind of car. The cars are easy to find and substantially discounted. Finding one configured the way you want in a specific color with specific options is tougher than normal because they stopped building them for two months at a time when they were seeing an unexpected uptick in demand at a time before they were able to replenish supply following a seven week labor strike. Harder still when half the dealers lard their cars up with extra options that make them unsuitable.

The same situation applies to much of GM's line up. Similar things are going on with other makes, but the GM strike makes it a bit worse for them.

[ff]

Originally Posted by clyde

Yeah, uh, no.

COVID has changed things. A lot.

Dealers have dumped tons of money into third-party platforms to help them conduct and complete online sales. Showroom traffic is still down substantially.

While I'm sure the online inquiry conversion rate is small, the in-person conversion rate is not large, but each in-person engagement takes vastly more time than online engagement. And, again, COVID has changed things including the ratio between these.

This explanation doesn't match up with the email exchange that you had with the salesperson. In fact, he/she made it pretty clear that "either come in and deal with us face-to-face for this particular car, or go fish in someone else's waters". Or his/her last day working at that dealership was the day they stopped responding.

Originally Posted by clyde

This car is not a highly sought, hard to find, limited production kind of car.

No, but it's also not something they have 400 of, piled up on the back lot. If it was, I'll bet the email exchange would've easily led to you driving home in your new car.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by clyde

This car is not a highly sought, hard to find, limited production kind of car. The cars are easy to find and substantially discounted. Finding one configured the way you want in a specific color with specific options is tougher than normal because they stopped building them for two months at a time when they were seeing an unexpected uptick in demand at a time before they were able to replenish supply following a seven week labor strike. Harder still when half the dealers lard their cars up with extra options that make them unsuitable.

Does GM allow for customers to order a specific car / options / colors, etc (like a bunch of have done w/ BMWs?) If so, would that be an approach for you to get EXACTLY what you want? Seems like you have the time to wait for an allocation and build lead-time? Is the issue losing cost negotiation ability on something that isn't currently on a dealer's lot?

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Does GM allow for customers to order a specific car / options / colors, etc (like a bunch of have done w/ BMWs?) If so, would that be an approach for you to get EXACTLY what you want? Seems like you have the time to wait for an allocation and build lead-time? Is the issue losing cost negotiation ability on something that isn't currently on a dealer's lot?

They won't want to give you the trunk money, incentives, discounts. It can be a pretty huge premium.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by ff

This explanation doesn't match up with the email exchange that you had with the salesperson.

Hence,

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Does GM allow for customers to order a specific car / options / colors, etc (like a bunch of have done w/ BMWs?) If so, would that be an approach for you to get EXACTLY what you want? Seems like you have the time to wait for an allocation and build lead-time? Is the issue losing cost negotiation ability on something that isn't currently on a dealer's lot?

Originally Posted by Nick M3

They won't want to give you the trunk money, incentives, discounts. It can be a pretty huge premium.

Yes, you can order. But there's only so much allocation to go around...and I'm told the process and practice is rather chaotic right now. A friend involved with ordering at a local Chevy dealer says he can order something for me, but it could take anywhere from 8-26 weeks for delivery...and that's if there is no shutdown, supplier issues, etc.

Anything ordered today would be a 2021 model. The 20s will cost less. On top of that, I'd prefer to be able to trade in the old car as part of the deal for reasons mentioned elsewhere. If used values start dropping, it may not be an issue much longer, since I'll sell at the top if that's where we are.