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Old 10-19-2018, 11:39 AM   #831
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How many people have to die? And how many apologists do we need?
Pretty sure he means people are confused about pre-paying for a speculative feature... not whether FSD is a good idea.
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Old 10-19-2018, 11:41 AM   #832
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Pretty sure he means people are confused about pre-paying for a speculative feature... not whether FSD is a good idea.
Doesn't change my questions.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:06 PM   #833
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
How many people have to die? And how many apologists do we need?
FSD doesn't actually exist yet, and even the hardware that they'll use for it doesn't exist yet. So it hasn't killed anyone yet.

It's interesting watching the screen on my car now that I have the v9 upgrade. I don't have autopilot, but the screen gives you a readout of what the car is seeing anyway. V9 has enhanced the car's ability to see and discriminate; it can now differentiate between cars and vans and SUVs and buses. It's...mostly right. It can also see on the side and rear of the car now, too (previously it didn't use the cameras for that, just the ultrasonic sensors). Again...it mostly works.

There's a long time between now and when it's ready for FSD, but presumably they're gathering a lot of data.

As for your "how many people have to die" question, the answer is "more than zero." People will die using FSD no matter how it's implemented. The real question is whether fewer people will die using FSD (or any other autonomous tech) than not. My guess is that the answer is yes, though I'd really like to make sure the (independently collected and verified) data bears that out.
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:44 PM   #834
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FSD doesn't actually exist yet, and even the hardware that they'll use for it doesn't exist yet. So it hasn't killed anyone yet.

It's interesting watching the screen on my car now that I have the v9 upgrade. I don't have autopilot, but the screen gives you a readout of what the car is seeing anyway. V9 has enhanced the car's ability to see and discriminate; it can now differentiate between cars and vans and SUVs and buses. It's...mostly right. It can also see on the side and rear of the car now, too (previously it didn't use the cameras for that, just the ultrasonic sensors). Again...it mostly works.

There's a long time between now and when it's ready for FSD, but presumably they're gathering a lot of data.

As for your "how many people have to die" question, the answer is "more than zero." People will die using FSD no matter how it's implemented. The real question is whether fewer people will die using FSD (or any other autonomous tech) than not. My guess is that the answer is yes, though I'd really like to make sure the (independently collected and verified) data bears that out.
I don't disagree with the validity of any of that. I also firmly believe that the day of fully autonomous vehicles mixing in with human driven vehicles and being involved in fewer at fault collisions with and without injuries and fatalities is in the very near future.

What I continue having a problem with is that manufacturers have unleashed these technologies upon all of us and marketed the hell out of them without adequate testing proving they're safe (or even "safe enough"), nor being transparent about what they know about how safe they are or aren't...and then hide behind "it's beta" and "the driver wasn't using it as intended" meaning "they didn't follow all the beta instructions and disclaimers and instead acted as any reasonable person might and/or bought into our ghastly hyperbolic marketing hype."
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Old 10-19-2018, 12:51 PM   #835
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Originally Posted by clyde View Post
What I continue having a problem with is that manufacturers have unleashed these technologies upon all of us and marketed the hell out of them without adequate testing proving they're safe (or even "safe enough"), nor being transparent about what they know about how safe they are or aren't...and then hide behind "it's beta" and "the driver wasn't using it as intended" meaning "they didn't follow all the beta instructions and disclaimers and instead acted as any reasonable person might and/or bought into our ghastly hyperbolic marketing hype."
I made this argument to someone at work and they replied with ,"If they're going to release something that isn't ready, it's good to call it Beta so people know, right?"

Tesla also has a "shadow" mode for certain features... (I think only emergency accident avoidance for now?). I believe they're attempting to collect data (without taking action) to approximate

a) how many accidents they believe they would have avoided by taking action when the human didn't
b) how many times they would have taken action that proved to be unnecessary (because the human didn't and all was fine)

I can see these numbers being manipulated easily, but that aside I do like the approach.
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Old 10-19-2018, 03:38 PM   #836
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I made this argument to someone at work and they replied with ,"If they're going to release something that isn't ready, it's good to call it Beta so people know, right?"
You work with mathy and computery people, right?

Quote:
Tesla also has a "shadow" mode for certain features... (I think only emergency accident avoidance for now?). I believe they're attempting to collect data (without taking action) to approximate

a) how many accidents they believe they would have avoided by taking action when the human didn't
b) how many times they would have taken action that proved to be unnecessary (because the human didn't and all was fine)

I can see these numbers being manipulated easily, but that aside I do like the approach.
That's reasonable, but if it's not transparent or independently verifiable, is it worth the 0s and 1s it's made of?
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Old 10-19-2018, 06:28 PM   #837
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The word choice of "fully self-driving" has reached an entirely different level of marketing b.s. compared to "auto-pilot" which was mere innuendo.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:18 PM   #838
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A friend started a FB thread today:

"[Is] the Model 3 really in DS? I am watching one right now, and it isn't slow."

That language from that person is something I took notice of.

I guess I missed where the RWD 3 was classed for SCCA Solo in the same class as my Camaro. Does not include AWD or Performance. (Yet, anyway.)

The thread includes some comments from a Tesla development driver who said the only suspension adjustability is toe front and rear, the open dif is a bit of a problem for the RWD, and the traction/stability systems are not defeatable. He keeps asking for them to be made defeatable because he finds more time when he shuts them down. He also says the forthcoming "track mode" in Performance AWD cars lets you be pretty aggressively before intervening.

Dunno how much this is all old news to you guys, but I guess I'm paying a little attention now.
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Old 10-21-2018, 06:28 PM   #839
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I’m curious about where they class the AWD. I fully intend to run at least a couple of events in it next year—maybe by then track mode will be out.

Acceleration and putting power down won’t reallt be an issue with the dual motor car, but from the factory they are pretty under-tired. I wonder how much rubber will fit underneath?
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Old 10-21-2018, 07:10 PM   #840
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Hm, this means as of right now my car is in DS, right? My 450 hp, AWD car that runs 11 second quarters?

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