Looking for Something Impractical $8-12k

[lupinsea]

I love the styling on the Solstice and I think it's a step above the Miata. . . but I don't think it's as easy a car to live with.

One of the things with the Miata that I like is that Mazda did such a good job with it that you don't think about things. They just work. Like the soft tops. Just pop the latch and throw it over your shoulder*, even while your seated . . . and even up to about 20-25 mph. Also, the modest trunk is just big enough for a weekend getaway for two (where as I think the Solstice trunk is about half the volume). And the Miata trunk is a completely separated space from where the top stows. . . so top up or down you have the same amount of trunk space. Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think that's the case with the Solstice.

And speaking of top, while I love the buttressed soft top on the Solstice I've never seen one that looks like it fits right. They always have some kind of baggy wrinkles in them. Note a Miata top (any generation of Miata) and it is always taught and crisp when up.

While GM bench marked the Solstice against the (NB) Miata and did a great job. . . my understanding is that there's a little bit of refinement and precision that they lack in comparison.

Oh, and the 400 lb. weight difference between the two.

And parts availability issues going forward with the Solstice / Sky.

It seem stilly to factor the practicality of these two fun cars based on the trunk and soft top operation but . . . It's the difference between simply a toy (which is the primary point of both cars) and having just enough practicality to move the vehicle beyond "just a toy" to a proper car you can use whenever.

As I say, I daily drive mine.

I also go on errand runs. The last "big" run was to Home Depot where I was able to fit 11 recessed can lights, all the trim rings, the bulbs, 250 ft of wire, and sundry other items into the Maita.


Also, I gotta put in a word about any car that can drop it's top. Last night was warm enough that dropped the top on the Miata and took some back roads out to a friend's house. And I kept the top down on the way home. It was a gorgeous moon-lit night, the top was down (heat cranked up but comfy), rolling along on a wonderful twisty country road, the stereo was off just listening to the sound of the engine as I blasted through the gears at 11 o'clock last night. The sense of connection with the outside world as you catch a scent of a wood burning fire in someone's house, the musky aroma of a near by creek and woodland, or the casual glance straight up at the starts and moon.

Ah. Great. Just wonderful.

Man, I had been missing that for the last half-decade I had been ensconced in the BMW.





Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts and impressions on both cars, particularly the Solstice. With both, rev the snot out of them. I know the Solstice has about 170hp and 170 lb-ft of torque but I think both engines wake up above 4,000 rpm. With the Miata you can rev to redline all day long without issue.

As for the Miata, I'd focus mostly on the feel, handling, acceleration, etc. If you decide on it you'll then need to figure out what combination of features you want (three different transmission choices, three different folding top choices, LSD / no LSD, etc.) which I can help you with . . . if you want. I just went through this process a few months ago.



* The throw-it-over-your-shoulder doesn't work nearly so well when the vinyl soft top is cold and stiff. Below ~50 deg or so I need to help ease it down. Once it gets warmer it'll be more plyable and tossable. The canvas roof would be much more flexible in cold weather. And the folding hard top shouldn't have an issue regardless of temperature.







.

[Biggins]

I just got back from the various dealerships. The cliffs notes version is that I'm leaning toward the non-turbo Solstice, though need more time or a better deal.

I'm keeping the old E36 to haul the dog, snowboard, golf clubs, etc. because the Miata and Solstice both have way too little space for anything other than cruising. After driving both on decent test drives, the cars are more similar than I thought. I definitely will need to get accustomed to driving a car this small.

Solstice: All of my previous concerns are still there (top, crap interior, big wheels). The driving position is okay, but the sightlines with the top up are difficult. The top did not seem as much of a chore, but the NC definitely crushes the Solstice in its ease of operation. The trunk space is ludicrous; I could not even fit a soccer ball in the trunk with the top down.

However, it felt great on the road. The transmission felt surprisingly strong, but the 1-4 gears seemed too close together on the tree if that makes sense. I got 3rd more than once when I thought I was in 1st. The Solstice definitely had more "right-now power" in the mid range and felt faster on the butt dyno. The handling was there and the extra weight of the car was not as noticeable as I expected. I went in expecting to use the Solstice as an excuse to want the NC Miata more. Purpose #1 will be autocross and cruising #2 and I feel this car will do both very well. I think the Solstice could fit 255 to maybe even 275 wide tires all around its massive wheelwells.

NC Miata: The model I drove was an '07 Grand Touring. It was fully loaded and out of my price range. I liked it a lot (except the color). I felt like I knew the car pretty well after your description and experience lup. The top is a piece of cake and it felt like a car that anyone can hop in and drive well and have tons of fun. It felt slightly slower than the Solstice, but it definitely goes when you punch it. I could also drive it to my soccer games while still carrying a person and a couple gym bags top up or down.

I've ridden in an NC Miata at an autocross and liked it. This one felt too optioned, but it would definitely be great for autocross. The only major problem with the Miata was that I didn't "love" the one I drove if that makes sense.

I'm going to try an '06 Miata (base) on Tuesday and a different Solstice one night this week, but I'm hoping to make up my mind soon.

[Sharp11]

What about support? How long will you be keeping this car? The Solstice has been put of production for awhile now, one wonders how long GM will keep parts for it, especially after the reorganization, which essentially allows them to start anew.

[lupinsea]

Thanks for the reviews. It's interesting to read your thoughts on the two cars. I'm not entirely surprised they are as similar as they are. IIRC, GM benchmarked the NB Miata when they were developing the Solstice. . . then the NC came out. There were a number of comparison reviews of the two cars and almost all the reviewers mention that they are remarkably similar. The Miata tended to get the nod but it came down to different shades of white, so to speak. Subtle nuances.

The Solstice is built like a mini-Corvette with a body-on-frame method. The "rails" are hydroformed steel like the Corvette, too. And I think it has forged aluminum double-wishbone suspension front and rear. Where as the Miata has forged AL double wishbone up front and fully independent multi-link outback attached to a unibody chassis.

The Solstice had about 30 extra lb-ft of torque on the Miata and a about 3 more hp. But it carried some extra weight.

The Miata engine has always been one that you needed to rev and they really wake up above 4,000 rpm so they won't feel that "punchy" down low. . . though I will say the NC's 2.0L has noticeably more pull down low than my old NB did with the 1.8L engine. But in comparison to the Solstice?

0-60 numbers are about the same, IIRC. Or very similar. But it wouldn't surprise me if the Solstice felt quicker. The Miatas have alway felt more like a sling shot to me. . . There's not as much acceleration at first as the RPMs built but before you know it they cars are accelerating briskly as the engines climbs north of ~4500 rpm. . . but it's very smooth, like the car was hooked up to a big-ass bungee cord that someone yanked on hard. I kind of dig it but I can see where it's not for everyone.

The GT you tried had the 6 spd (I'm assuming it was the manual you tested).

Try out a 5 spd manual. They are the preferred tranny for autocrosses. Guys like them because you can hit 60 mph in 2nd. Where as the 6 spd requires a shift to 3rd and some loss of time . . . and / or you're bouncing off the rev limiter. Generally, the 5 spd is for autocrosses where as the 6 spd is for road courses.

Oh, and I actually prefer the cloth seats to the leather ones for the NC.

Originally Posted by Sharp11

What about support? How long will you be keeping this car? The Solstice has been put of production for awhile now, one wonders how long GM will keep parts for it, especially after the reorganization, which essentially allows them to start anew.

X2

Have you loitered on the Solstice forums to get a sense how how well the car is supported now that it's no longer being built? Any sense of commitment from GM for the parts and such? Just how much would you be on your own with the car?

Ultimately, it kid of pisses me off that the car was killed off. I would have loved to see what GM did with a second generation of the Solstice. It should have been continued as a Chevy.

[Biggins]

I did a few more test drives this week and am further from a decision. I'm in the last semester of my graduate program, so I am taking a break for a few weeks from test drives to wrap up my 2nd 35 page report/defense. I got a call back from an out-of-state dealer who dropped his price on a Solstice I liked, but our numbers are still WAY off from what I think it is worth...

2003 Honda Civic Si: I drove this car because it was on a lot of a Solstice I was driving. It was the hatchback Si that no one in America bought. I liked it much more than I wanted. The motor and tranny were stronger than I expected and it seemed to handle pretty well. If I needed a commuter car right now, I'd definitely consider it, but I think a Mini or some other FWD'er would be as good if not better.

'06 MX-5: This was actually a friend's car who was in town for business this week. He really let me wring it out, and it is definitely a great car. The shifter felt better on his car than the '07 that I drove. However, he had some Tein S-Tech springs on the car that seemed unnoticeable. He also had a subwoofer in the trunk, so his car was a bit heavier. Everything about it was so much easier to operate than the Solstice.

So... Though I was trying to avoid a car payment, I think I'll keep saving my pennies and strongly consider the Toyobaru. Unless a perfect/great option comes up from now until May, the Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ appears to be an awesome option.

[equ]

Well, we had an 02 Civic Si (ep3 as it is called), from 86k to 149k miles. It was a great car, gf loved it. Other than FWD, there are almost no downsides.. High-20's to low-30's mixed mpg's on regular, decent torque, very neutral and fun to drive, I'd argue more so than the 06+ Si. Much more spacious as well, with good quality interior materials and good seats. Nothing but oil changes/tires until about 140k... Then a driveshaft sheared, some tensioner caused screeching (easy fix) and the cat converter was on its way out.

It's way, way better than base minis. Obviously not as fun or peppy as a Mini S, but a long time I argued it was better in these pages (a little bias). But throw in better space, smoother suspension, it would give the MCS a run for its money as a daily. Some negatives, 80mph@4000rpm is a bit noisy. Also check front geometry/suspension/steering carefully, some can creak. Not that great on the white stuff, with average snow tires even. Not sure why? Lack of TC or low gearing. All in all, some good memories.

[lupinsea]

I think waiting is probably your best option now.

One, you can focus on wrapping up your graduate work and not get distracted by a car.

Secondly, the Toyobaru BRZ / FRS sounds like it's a great car that offers a fixed roof (probably stiffer chassis) and more practicality than the Solstice / Miata. And it just went into production.

Waiting and stock piling some pennys lets you take a look at the BRZ / FRS when it is more redily available. If you still want a Solstics / Miata / MINI / Whatever, they'll still be around. But waiting gives you other options.

And it's only, what, a matter of some months?

[Biggins]

Ordered the FR-S this past weekend (Orange, Manual, no options). I hope it will be the cool & fun car I expect it to be. It sounds like I should have it by early June.

[Jeff_DML]

Originally Posted by Biggins

Ordered the FR-S this past weekend (Orange, Manual, no options). I hope it will be the cool & fun car I expect it to be. It sounds like I should have it by early June.

congrats, see if I join you in a year or so with a BRZ

a little bit over 8-12k though

[lupinsea]

Sweet!

Pix or it didn't happen.

Oh, and that's pretty fast delivery from what I understand. Over in Japan, they've pre-ordered clear out in to 2013.