F-150 Lightning

[ZBB]

We have a Y…. It is weird looking from certain angles. Front 3/4 is the oddest. But it looks better from the rear 3/4 than the 3

[kognito]

Originally Posted by JST

Eh, I think the Mach E looks a lot better than the Model Y. Both of them are sort of silly looking.

Originally Posted by ZBB

We have a Y…. It is weird looking from certain angles. Front 3/4 is the oddest. But it looks better from the rear 3/4 than the 3

I saw my first Y in a parking lot this past week.

The nose sure is great a collecting dead bugs (well. I guess they were alive when collected)

[ZBB]

So…. I stopped by a Ford dealer to test drive the Mach E. The one they had in stock was the California Route 1 edition, which has the larger battery (88kWh and it was showing 301 miles of range - it was plugged in when I drove up) and is RWD (single motor). Sticker was ~$51k.

The sales guy had one pedal driving turned off, and had it in “whisper” mode (which is similar to Tesla’s chill mode and reduces acceleration and regen braking). With one pedal off, the car crept forward with the foot off the brake — actually very artificial feeling. Before I knew that it was in "whisper" mode, I was not impressed -- thinking that while it was quiet and smooth, it didn't feel very fast. We later changed the settings to turn on one pedal driving and out it in unbridled mode. That was much better.

But overall, I’m not sure I liked it. It drove well - but feels heavy (something Tesla is able to hide)… But I’ve really gotten used to Tesla’s minimalism. It was weird to have such a big screen that was basically only the map, audio and HVAC controls. Everything else had physical buttons (mirror adjustments, seat memory, homelink and a start-stop button)

The screen is big, but the space isn’t used all that well. The primary display takes most of the top half of the screen. Below that, there is a smaller strip that shows other features - audio settings, a CarPlay box, and HVAC. Tapping on one of them expands it into the top area, and the map goes into the left most box in the strip. So the order of things in the strip can change….

There is also a volume knob on the screen. While it works, it doesn’t feel good — very plastic feeling. It also is odd that they put a physical control on the screen, which limits how much of the screen can change based in context — that bottom middle is always volume.

But overall, it’s an impressive car and well done. Probably not for me — I really like how Tesla transformed the experience (pressing the brake when sitting in the drivers seat to turn the car off is still one of my favorite examples). But for someone coming from an ICE, this is really a great way to experience an EV.

[robg]

Originally Posted by ZBB

So…. I stopped by a Ford dealer to test drive the Mach E. The one they had in stock was the California Route 1 edition, which has the larger battery (88kWh and it was showing 301 miles of range - it was plugged in when I drove up) and is RWD (single motor). Sticker was ~$51k.

The sales guy had one pedal driving turned off, and had it in “whisper” mode (which is similar to Tesla’s chill mode and reduces acceleration and regen braking). With one pedal off, the car crept forward with the foot off the brake — actually very artificial feeling. Before I knew that it was in "whisper" mode, I was not impressed -- thinking that while it was quiet and smooth, it didn't feel very fast. We later changed the settings to turn on one pedal driving and out it in unbridled mode. That was much better.

But overall, I’m not sure I liked it. It drove well - but feels heavy (something Tesla is able to hide)… But I’ve really gotten used to Tesla’s minimalism. It was weird to have such a big screen that was basically only the map, audio and HVAC controls. Everything else had physical buttons (mirror adjustments, seat memory, homelink and a start-stop button)

The screen is big, but the space isn’t used all that well. The primary display takes most of the top half of the screen. Below that, there is a smaller strip that shows other features - audio settings, a CarPlay box, and HVAC. Tapping on one of them expands it into the top area, and the map goes into the left most box in the strip. So the order of things in the strip can change….

There is also a volume knob on the screen. While it works, it doesn’t feel good — very plastic feeling. It also is odd that they put a physical control on the screen, which limits how much of the screen can change based in context — that bottom middle is always volume.

But overall, it’s an impressive car and well done. Probably not for me — I really like how Tesla transformed the experience (pressing the brake when sitting in the drivers seat to turn the car off is still one of my favorite examples). But for someone coming from an ICE, this is really a great way to experience an EV.

Nice review. For me, this would be a big pro not a con. Unfortunately, I think more and more companies are going to follow Tesla's lead and start removing physical buttons to save cost.
"It was weird to have such a big screen that was basically only the map, audio and HVAC controls. Everything else had physical buttons (mirror adjustments, seat memory, homelink and a start-stop button)"

Our RRS has similar dials inset into the lower screen that allow you to control: temp, fan speed, seat cooling/heating and terrain response modes. Probably from the same supplier. Does the Ford implementation really only allow you to control volume? IF so, I agree that's a wasted opportunity.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by robg

Nice review. For me, this would be a big pro not a con. Unfortunately, I think more and more companies are going to follow Tesla's lead and start removing physical buttons to save cost.
"It was weird to have such a big screen that was basically only the map, audio and HVAC controls. Everything else had physical buttons (mirror adjustments, seat memory, homelink and a start-stop button)"

Our RRS has similar dials inset into the lower screen that allow you to control: temp, fan speed, seat cooling/heating and terrain response modes. Probably from the same supplier. Does the Ford implementation really only allow you to control volume? IF so, I agree that's a wasted opportunity.

Yeah, some (many?) regular people would see the physical volume knob as a plus. That it feels meh is disappointing to hear, but is it normal Ford meh or meh compared to normal Ford?

Many automakers have at least experimented with moving controls away from buttons and knobs to screen over the past 10+ years, mostly to automotive press complaints and ridicule. Tesla doesn't give a fuck about anyone except Musk, but the rest of the manufacturers care about what people want so they can build like that. I would expect the next few generations to be responsive to the feedback the non-Tesla manufacturers get in clinics, and what they discern from sales.

[robg]

Originally Posted by clyde

Yeah, some (many?) regular people would see the physical volume knob as a plus. That it feels meh is disappointing to hear, but is it normal Ford meh or meh compared to normal Ford?

Many automakers have at least experimented with moving controls away from buttons and knobs to screen over the past 10+ years, mostly to automotive press complaints and ridicule. Tesla doesn't give a fuck about anyone except Musk, but the rest of the manufacturers care about what people want so they can build like that. I would expect the next few generations to be responsive to the feedback the non-Tesla manufacturers get in clinics, and what they discern from sales.

Yeah will be interesting to see if there is a backlash against the everything-is-a-touchscreen approach. I know Honda backed away from removing the volume knob, but VW seems to have made the same mistake in the lastest Golf (removing the physical volume knob). The arguments I hear from people in favor of it are along the lines of "its the future, so stop being stuck in your ways" and "it looks cleaner that way". I dont find either argument to overly compelling. There's a middle ground between the button explosion of the gen 1 Panamera and a Model 3. Haptic feedback is the latest thing to be offered a solution, but all that does is make you feel more like you're pressing a physical button. That misses the point of a physical button- you can feel for it without looking. And yeah, I don't know that other car companies are going to be able to get away with the customer-hostile stance of Musk/Tesla (as tempting as it might be to put everyting in a touch screen to save $$).

[clyde]

Originally Posted by robg

Yeah will be interesting to see if there is a backlash against the everything-is-a-touchscreen approach. I know Honda backed away from removing the volume knob, but VW seems to have made the same mistake in the lastest Golf (removing the physical volume knob). The arguments I hear from people in favor of it are along the lines of "its the future, so stop being stuck in your ways" and "it looks cleaner that way". I dont find either argument to overly compelling. There's a middle ground between the button explosion of the gen 1 Panamera and a Model 3. Haptic feedback is the latest thing to be offered a solution, but all that does is make you feel more like you're pressing a physical button. That misses the point of a physical button- you can feel for it without looking. And yeah, I don't know that other car companies are going to be able to get away with the customer-hostile stance of Musk/Tesla (as tempting as it might be to put everyting in a touch screen to save $$).

I just can't get the image out of my head of my father struggling to figure out physical controls on rental cars in his later years.

It doesn't matter whether it looks clean or busy or looks like the future or the past...If it's something you may need or have a strong desire to touch, adjust or otherwise operate while the vehicle is in motion, it NEEDS to be something that can be operated by feel and not require sight or driver focus, like a physical control and not something on a screen. An advanced haptics engine might work okay, but we don't have that yet.

The Focus ST had a climate control screen that included all options and settings for the climate controls. That was okay, though, because the only one that wasn't duplicated with a physical control was resetting it from dual-mode operation to linked.

Many of the radio controls were only available from the screen, which sucked, because even though many of the buttons were big, you still had to look at the screen to hit the right one. AND hope that there was mo car motion in between your hand moving for the screen and your finger actually pushing the fake button that ended up making you push an adjacent button.

[ZBB]

The volume knob on the Mach E is unique… it’s actually capacitive and is just stuck on the screen. If it wasn’t there, you could use a finger. I think that’s why it feels so plasticky — perhaps they tried to keep the weight down so the adhesive has less of a chance to come off?

I really like how Tesla’s controls work, especially on the 3 and Y. There are physical controls on the steering wheel that work well for audio controls (volume, forward, back and pause), activating voice controls (which work better and more natural language than other cars), setting cruise control speed, etc.

I rarely touch the screen when driving in town…