Tesla Model S waffling

[JST]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

what does that equate to in total range?

I didn't look, but it wouldn't really be meaningful; the usage is high because the battery heater comes on when the car is cold, and that sucks a lot of juice. If I'd kept driving (especially at higher speeds), the average would have dropped considerably, in part because the car uses waste heat from the drivetrain to warm the battery.

But if the average stayed at 614 w/mi? Figure about 100-120 miles, since it's a bit more than double what the "rated" range of 265 assumes.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by JST

I didn't look, but it wouldn't really be meaningful; the usage is high because the battery heater comes on when the car is cold, and that sucks a lot of juice. If I'd kept driving (especially at higher speeds), the average would have dropped considerably, in part because the car uses waste heat from the drivetrain to warm the battery.

But if the average stayed at 614 w/mi? Figure about 100-120 miles, since it's a bit more than double what the "rated" range of 265 assumes.

Thanks, that answers my question. I was trying to figure out if the actual range in worst case conditions was still decent enough to do everything I'd want to do in a normal day on a charge.

[JST]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Thanks, that answers my question. I was trying to figure out if the actual range in worst case conditions was still decent enough to do everything I'd want to do in a normal day on a charge.

This is pretty close to worst case--it's 3 cold soaked starts in ~15 degree weather with a total driving distance each time of right around 5 miles. The battery was just starting to get warm in each case right when I shut the car down.

It would be worse if there were a lot of snow on the ground, or if it were snowing in addition to the cold, since this would increase resistance. But even then, if you weren't constantly stopping, cold soaking, and starting the car, you'd probably see better than this.

[ZBB]

Josh -
The key to the what JST is saying is the "cold soak". What happens is that the car needs to heat the battery up -- which takes a huge amount of energy (nearly as much as driving itself). But when the battery is warmed up, energy use returns to normal.

But... if the battery is already warm (say from charging, or from warming up the cabin off of "shore power"), you don't really notice an impact on range or energy use from the cold. For reference, my drive up to Flagstaff on Sat morning was all in below freezing temps -- it was 30 when I left my house, 26 when we stopped at the first Supercharger, dropped to as low a 4 as we climbed up to Flagstaff (at ~7,000 feet...), and 28 when we arrived at the sledding area. But I left the house shortly after charging ended and supercharged along the way -- so the battery was already warm before driving and didn't need much heat to maintain temp while driving. This is the 2nd time I've driven this route in the Tesla, and I used more energy since I could drive 5 over the limit (last time the in-between Supercharger didn't exist -- so had to drive the limit most of the way to ensure we could make it); I'm sure the cold cost me a couple miles of range, but not enough to notice or worry...

On a side note, I see something similar in summer, when the battery needs to cool, although I've really only noticed a bit of reduced range when the temps are over 110 and the battery sits parked out in the heat (and gets "hot soaked"). But its negligible -- perhaps a 5 mile range loss until the battery cools down a bit (which takes 5-10 min)...

[ZBB]

So JST...

Did you get 6.1 yet? Yet again, I'm not in the initial batch, but I turned the "stay connected" option on in the sleep mode settings in the hope that I get it sooner...

Lots of new features -- the release notes are 10 screen-pages long! Includes a bunch of things owners have been asking for:

• Shuffle on the media player
• guidance lines on the backup camera pics
• better support for podcasts on TuneIn (FF/RW, saving where you are at for the next time you get in the car)
• energy use estimates for navigation (will even tell you if you will need to charge before you get to the destination or if you can make the round trip without charging).

It has also enables some features for cars with the Autopilot hardware

• active cruise control is enabled (and some owners are saying it will bring the car to a full stop in stop-and-go driving)
• Parking sensor displays updated to assist with parallel parking

This post over at TMC has pictures of the release notes: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showt...l=1#post865985

[John V]

Seems like the drive unit failures for these cars are becoming pretty well publicized.

These cars are tempting new despite the high cost, but no way in hell would I own one out of warranty.

[JST]

Originally Posted by John V

Seems like the drive unit failures for these cars are becoming pretty well publicized.

These cars are tempting new despite the high cost, but no way in hell would I own one out of warranty.

The out-of-warranty service issue is one of the big question marks hovering around Tesla. It's one that they will have to solve. At this point, I am giving them the (limited) benefit of the doubt, because they have a lot of plates spinning and for a while they'll be able to fudge it--many of their cars are still under warranty, the drive units will all be warrantied for quite a while (or nearly all), and they can probably deal with most of the outlier cases on a case-by-case basis.

But.

They don't have service manuals. They don't sell access to any of the fancy electronic tools you need to diagnose the car. They don't sell those tools themselves. They don't even sell *parts* without a VIN, and forget about buying them wholesale. If you have a salvage car, they won't sell you parts.

There are some nuances here that I am not getting into, but the bottom line is that it would be impossible, at this point, to keep a Tesla on the road without using "dealer" service. And what that service will cost is very much open to question.

All of which is my way of saying, I agree with you, JV. I wouldn't own this car out of warranty, either.

As for the drive unit, mine is still set to be replaced at some point, but I don't have any idea when that will be.

EDIT: No 6.1 yet. Most of those features are kind of a yawn, but I do like the idea of range prediction with nav.

EDIT: One touch dialing in Calendar is nice, as is smart pre-conditioning.

[kognito]

Would be hard to believe that tesla won't offer some sort of service contract to sell to 2nd owners.

Autotrader shows 9 used tesla's for sale within 50 miles of zipcode. 1 is a roadster

[JST]

Originally Posted by Josh (PA)

Thanks, that answers my question. I was trying to figure out if the actual range in worst case conditions was still decent enough to do everything I'd want to do in a normal day on a charge.

Here are some of the consumption graphs. You can see the spikes where the battery is warming up.

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by kognito

Would be hard to believe that tesla won't offer some sort of service contract to sell to 2nd owners.



Autotrader shows 9 used tesla's for sale within 50 miles of zipcode. 1 is a roadster

They sell an extended warranty already -- an extra 4 year / 50k. Cost is $4k. Just has to be bought within 30 days of the original warranty expiring. I can just go to the MyTesla sight and buy it any time until then...

but it's not sold in all states -- WA and FL are the two that come to mind, but I'm sure there are others...