If you want a BMW 2 series with a stick, better order one now.

[lemming]

Originally Posted by FC

The M3 (as a sedan) may be bigger, duller, and number than all those before it (E90-only, really), but it also has boatloads of torque, better range, it can be a pretty nice place inside, and has good hardware and silly performance. It's also the only European with a MT. Overall, I don't think there is a better premium/performance sports sedan out there under 100k.

That may be sad, but it's still true. That sadder thing is how wide the spread is between M and non-M cars. It's no good to BMW if the only way to get any semblance of "the ultimate driving machine" (however diluted) is to plunk down $70K on a crazy-fast car.

In the E46 days, and even the E90 days, you could spec a sporty 3er with feel and soul without having to go M. I think the F30 killed the 3er for the larger population of potential buyers.

I also think this vacuum is why Porsche gets away charging what it does. I really do hope Caddy delivers with the next gen of cars.

And to be fair, I'd still have a lot of fun in a 228i with a manual transmission (if it's possible to get that configuration).

Will BMW keep manual transmissions alive in the 3 series, even non-M?

[Plaz]

Originally Posted by lemming

And to be fair, I'd still have a lot of fun in a 228i with a manual transmission (if it's possible to get that configuration).

Will BMW keep manual transmissions alive in the 3 series, even non-M?

Last I heard, they're phasing out all manuals except in lower-numbered M cars. (M2, M3, M4)

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by wdc330i

I think the plan is for the next 4 vert to have a soft top. Whether it will have a stick is a question.

Have you driven the 4 cylinder 3 wagon? It looks to be the same size as the E61. Probably doesn't come in a stick either...

Edit: No stick. Does still have Msport and Track Handling package, which includes a real sport suspension. So that's something, I guess. Almost $60k with options.

Yep, the current 3er wagon size is acceptable, very similar to my old e39 540iT. The problem is offering it only with the n20 engine. My parents have a pair of current gen 328i sedans that I have spent a lot of time driving. The engine has pretty OK amounts of power, but it is not very pleasant to live with. lots of NHV and not "good" power. Its similar feeling performance to our x5 w/ the n55. If you force it, it will move quickly but there is more weight than that engine prefers.

I did read about the next gen 4 going back to a soft top. By then it will be the size of the 6er and probably just as bloated unfortunately.

[wdc330i]

Maybe a Dinan tune would help...

[Biggins]

Originally Posted by FC

Dynamically yes. But the engine is lacking, the interior is horrid, and rear legroom is pretty miserable. Also, the looks are polarizing.

They are close though.

My thoughts exactly. I want to like the ATS, but I still think the BMW is better by a lot. The rear legroom is laughable, but it is one of those cars that only looks good in certain colors to me.

I drove a 228i M-Sport/Track pack manual several years ago at a street survival school and thought it was a pretty special car. Even with its runflat tires, I really had fun driving it. Most of all (and with all recent BMWs), I just worry more about maintenance costs with the turbo motors and the electronics paired to them.

[bren]

Originally Posted by Biggins

I just worry more about maintenance costs with the turbo motors and the electronics paired to them.

Take a look at what it costs to replace the electric water pump. Ask me how I know.

[Theo]

This whole thread speaks to why I STILL have not sold my 14yo car.

[Josh (PA)]

Originally Posted by bren

Take a look at what it costs to replace the electric water pump. Ask me how I know.

It's ~$1000 partts and labor. The one on my N54 e6w went at 97,000 miles. The one in my n55 1er when at 35,000 miles. Luckily both were covered by warranties (aftermarket on the 535, CPO on the 1er)

[dan]

I have 1 month left on my CPO

[lemming]

if the future is DCT or automatic, i hope they figure out service intervals for the dual clutch gearboxes. as it is, it's not like dealers are willing to take them apart and replace anything. the whole unit gets replaced.....