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Old 09-18-2017, 01:03 AM   #241
lip277
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:02 PM   #242
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I don't think it's a walk the walk vs talk the talk kind of thing. Anyone that digs cars should be knocked out by either even though not reasonable car people might refuse to consider one or the other for no reason. The differentiation for me is the value for the money. The least expensive 911 starts over $90k and you're past $150k before you're sitting in one that's interesting. A ZL1 tops out about $72k. As much as I might enjoy a 911, I don't think I could ever be persuaded that any current 911 is twice the car or worth twice the money (potential resale and actual cost to own determined at a future date notwithstanding).

But whatever.

I don't like white cars.

http://www.porterchevy.com/VehicleDe...59898383#close

Wonder if it will still be available once I have a roof...
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Old 09-18-2017, 03:12 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
I don't think it's a walk the walk vs talk the talk kind of thing. Anyone that digs cars should be knocked out by either even though not reasonable car people might refuse to consider one or the other for no reason. The differentiation for me is the value for the money. The least expensive 911 starts over $90k and you're past $150k before you're sitting in one that's interesting. A ZL1 tops out about $72k. As much as I might enjoy a 911, I don't think I could ever be persuaded that any current 911 is twice the car or worth twice the money (potential resale and actual cost to own determined at a future date notwithstanding).

But whatever.

I don't like white cars.

http://www.porterchevy.com/VehicleDe...59898383#close

Wonder if it will still be available once I have a roof...
The Camaro holds no appeal for me, partly for unreasonable, parochial reasons, partly because I just don't like the look, and partly because the interior really rubs me the wrong way.

I'll freely concede the Camaro is the faster car. But if you gave me the choice between a brand new or almost new Camaro ZLFASA@!!!#R$ or whatever and whatever used 911 the same amount of money could buy, I'd pick the 911 every time.

Part of that is that I just hate Camaros. But another part of the is the realization that almost any recent 911 has more than enough performance to keep me entertained on the street, and so the added performance of the Camaro is really just good for bench racing and winning Internet fights (but, you know what they say about fighting on the Internet).
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:20 PM   #244
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I really really want to like the mustang. I never did before this latest iteration. I think it has, well at least looks so online, reached a level of refinement I can deal with. The interior has gotten leaps and bounds better with nice interfaces (Digital dash) and nice seats (Optional Recaro's). Only some bad hard plastics remain on parts of the doors if you get the premium interior upgrade.

I also like the exterior styling of the 2018 and the newly available options. (Magnaride on the GT esp) And 460hp is plenty for any US roads.

Buying one though means massive depreciation as soon as you drive off the lot.
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Old 09-18-2017, 05:39 PM   #245
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I really really want to like the mustang. I never did before this latest iteration. I think it has, well at least looks so online, reached a level of refinement I can deal with. The interior has gotten leaps and bounds better with nice interfaces (Digital dash) and nice seats (Optional Recaro's). Only some bad hard plastics remain on parts of the doors if you get the premium interior upgrade.

I also like the exterior styling of the 2018 and the newly available options. (Magnaride on the GT esp) And 460hp is plenty for any US roads.

Buying one though means massive depreciation as soon as you drive off the lot.
The 2018 Mustang interior ups the soft touch plastic quotient.

Certain specs for the 2018 that matter to me (gearing primarily)still aren't available and they could change my plans. I am sure a Mustang would be easier to live with.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:20 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clyde View Post
Anyone that digs cars should be knocked out by either even though not reasonable car people might refuse to consider one or the other for no reason. The differentiation for me is the value for the money.
Like JST, for similar but not entirely identical reasons, I disagree. I think I'm reasonably reasonable and I never considered a Camaro. I was closer to Mustangs but never seriously considered one either, though I occasionally entertain the thought.

Unlike JST, I don't hate how the Camaro looks. In fact, I like it.

I might hate it if I owned it. I like sports cars that I can drive every day. The 911 and m3 win that regard. Even the cayman and the boxster if you are willing to go with two seats. The visibility of the Camaro is awful. I live in a tight hundred year old area. The footprint of the Camaro is large, the interior space, while bigger than a 911 is not as good as an m3, even an e46 m3 (which has decent room for two adults in the back and a decent trunk with a folding expansion). These factors matter to me.

I have a feeling Camaros are better built. My rental Mustang was not impressive. But Mustangs have better visibility. So that would make it of interest. Secondly the high-revving engine of the GT350 would be of interest, but once again I get into footprint issues. I can't justify a sports car that takes as much or more room than my 535i.

Value: In the end, porsches have not cost me all that much to own. They have good resale and good reliability. But my use case may be very different from your (more competition) oriented use case.
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Old 09-19-2017, 02:02 AM   #247
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FWIW, I've always liked Camaros. It was the first muscle car I REALLY liked, even more than Mustangs, GTOs, Chevelles, Chargers, etc.

That said, when I drove this, not too long ago, I was pretty impressed, and have often wondered what it would be like to drive the high-performance version.

Fast forward a few years, and I find myself sitting in a Camaro ZL-1 with a manual transmission in the Reno Auto Show. I pushed the clutch in and rowed through the gears, its buttery-smooth action and short throws impressed me. A sign in the front stating "650 hp" left me wondering what it would be like to drive this beast.

I always vowed that if I ever hit the lottery, this would be the first car I'd buy.

Then the Porsche 911 second.

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Old 09-19-2017, 08:08 AM   #248
Biggins
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You really need the green color if you go Camaro! I finally saw one in the flesh over the weekend, and you really notice it from blocks away...

M2?
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:30 AM   #249
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Quote:
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You really need the green color if you go Camaro! I finally saw one in the flesh over the weekend, and you really notice it from blocks away...

M2?
M2 for sure. I love my 240. I can only imagine how much better the M2 is. If hadn't wanted a convertible, the M2 would have been my choice.
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Old 09-19-2017, 08:31 AM   #250
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M2 is a lot more money. He could buy an scca "spec twin", a trailer, and a truck.
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