EVs

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by JST

I appreciate that the Model 3 styling (and that Tesla styling generally) doesn't move people. It is what it is.

I find criticism of the "spartan" interiors on Teslas harder to understand, since that's the way everything is headed these days. The Mach E looks like a carbon copy of a Tesla interior in most ways, though with Ford seats (whether that's good or bad depends on whether you like Ford seats). The Taycan looks like someone was told to take the inside of a Panamera and make it look as much like a Tesla as possible. The seats are good, though.

And I have my own gripes about Tesla the company and Tesla the car, including the loss of tactile buttons (but everyone is copying that!) and the loss of a physical key (ditto!).

I'm all for people buying EVs, and I hope more people do. If Ford and Porsche copying Tesla but putting them in different wrappers is what it takes to get all of you into EVs, I'm cool with that.

When self driving evolves to the point that it's legal to "drive" under the influence, I'll go electric. Until then, eh.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

I appreciate that the Model 3 styling (and that Tesla styling generally) doesn't move people. It is what it is.

I find criticism of the "spartan" interiors on Teslas harder to understand, since that's the way everything is headed these days. The Mach E looks like a carbon copy of a Tesla interior in most ways, though with Ford seats (whether that's good or bad depends on whether you like Ford seats). The Taycan looks like someone was told to take the inside of a Panamera and make it look as much like a Tesla as possible. The seats are good, though.

And I have my own gripes about Tesla the company and Tesla the car, including the loss of tactile buttons (but everyone is copying that!) and the loss of a physical key (ditto!).

I'm all for people buying EVs, and I hope more people do. If Ford and Porsche copying Tesla but putting them in different wrappers is what it takes to get all of you into EVs, I'm cool with that.

A major difference between the Mach E and 3 is that the Mach E displays necessary drive info directly in front of the driver. The 3 console design is also much more minimalist and tucked away into nothingness where the Mach E fills the space more and creates a more enveloping seating position for each of the front occupants, complete with armrest at an armrest usable height which the 3 seems to lack.

All of that plus more in a Taycan to 3 comparison. Tesla is intent on pretending that drivers are passengers and their interiors reflect that. Porsche seems to saying that drivers are drivers with their interiors.

Looking at photos and videos, the Taycan looks like a place I'd like to spend some time. The Mach E looks may not be the most inviting, but it's not off-putting. The 3...



Again, this was a big realization for me when I was watching the (rather uninspired) Walker video this morning.

I wanted to leave Musk (and Tesla's business practices and marketing) aside and just look at the cars and their real world capabilities.

I was perplexed as to why I keep finding myself interested in these other EVs, but not Teslas. And then it dawned on me. I'm quite impressed by the 3 Performance's acceleration (and its traction control capability), but that's not enough to spur a general interest in the car.

That other cars are not yet matching that performance is kind of a yawn since the opportunities to take full advantage of that are so few and far between. I already have a car that's not as quick that I can almost never fully use.

[JST]

I have a lot of respect for Jim Farley, but...this is not a good tweet. The way to beat Tesla isn't to get into Twitter subtweet battles, and Ford's comms team should tell him to knock it off.

https://twitter.com/jimfarley98/stat...343205376?s=20


Clyde, I hear what you're saying. But I also feel like it comes partly from not having spent a lot of time in a Model 3. I really thought I'd hate having everything in the center screen, but it turns out that opening up the dash like that actually makes you feel *more* involved with the road, not less.

The new Model S retains the screen in front of the driver, so it's pretty clear Tesla's move with the 3 was all about cost cutting rather than driver experience. But regardless of motive, clearing away the stuff in front of you and letting you see the road turns out to be a pretty effective way of making you feel like you're driving. As I've said before, once you get used to it, going back to a car like the BMW makes you feel like you're in the cockpit of something like the Spirit of St. Louis.

The other thing that's worth noting, Taycan v. Model 3, is the way braking works. I posted elsewhere that Porsche has decided to keep braking and throttle separate on the Taycan. I can understand their reasons for doing that, but IMO when you make the Taycan feel like an ICE car with an automatic, you lose one of the coolest and most engaging things about driving an EV--that feeling of a direct link between your right foot and what the car is doing.

[Nick M3]

I'll admit that I haven't tried it, but all descriptions of "one pedal driving" that I've seen sound exhausting.

[JST]

Originally Posted by Nick M3

I'll admit that I haven't tried it, but all descriptions of "one pedal driving" that I've seen sound exhausting.

LOL.

Why?

It's literally the opposite of exhausting.

You want to slow down, you lift your foot up. Car slows down.

It feels like a manual transmission car that is always in the right (low) gear to provide engine braking.

It takes some getting used to (though not very much), but once you do it gives you a level of precise control over vehicle speed that you simply don't get in other cars. It's a really big part of what makes driving a Tesla so much different than just driving a car with a slushbox.

[clyde]

Originally Posted by JST

Clyde, I hear what you're saying. But I also feel like it comes partly from not having spent a lot of time in a Model 3.

I know you're hearing some of it, but I'm not sure that you're hearing the important part.

I'm not experiencing anything of theirs if they can't get me excited enough to give them a shot.

I hold your automotive opinions in high regard (I probably wouldn't have bought the RX-8 if you hadn't suggested looking at it and if you hadn't attended the Focus ST arrive and drive, I probably would have skipped, and then probably not bought the FoST I had for five years) and I've basically only heard you say good things about how they drive. I take your praise of the car seriously. The hill is just too steep to matter. If I went over to your place tomorrow, I'd be so much more looking forward to comparing the color of the paint on BMW to that on my Chevrolet than I would be checking out the 3. I'd probably test drive it if you insisted, but it would be out of politeness.

Meanwhile, I'm "Oooohing" and "Ahhing" over other manufacturers' offerings.

[Nick M3]

Originally Posted by JST

LOL.

Why?

It's literally the opposite of exhausting.

You want to slow down, you lift your foot up. Car slows down.

It feels like a manual transmission car that is always in the right (low) gear to provide engine braking.

It takes some getting used to (though not very much), but once you do it gives you a level of precise control over vehicle speed that you simply don't get in other cars. It's a really big part of what makes driving a Tesla so much different than just driving a car with a slushbox.

Because I like to be able to lift and coast. One pedal driving means that you have to hold your foot in place.

Having to hold my foot in place (because the pedal was so stupidly light that it would go to the floor if you leaned on it) was why I ultimately couldn't live with the WRX.

[JST]

I know you're hearing some of it, but I'm not sure that you're hearing the important part.

I'm not experiencing anything of theirs if they can't get me excited enough to give them a shot.

No, I get that. I'm not trying to persuade anyone to buy a Tesla, and I'm not saying you're wrong to want to clear an emotional threshold before trying a car. I certainly do that, too.

I do think that some of what you think about Teslas is colored by your distaste for Musk and for the company's practices. I don't fault that, either--I've stopped buying things from companies for less. I still won't buy Toshiba gear because they sold computerized milling machines to the Soviets in 1987.

The only thing I'm saying is that, objectively, the Model 3 remains an incredible achievement. The Model S, too, but the Model 3 especially. It frankly still blows my mind that it is as good as it is. And while I don't deny there are lots of ppl out there turned off by Musk/the car's styling/the image of the car/whatever, and those people might not have the same hangups with a Porsche or a Ford, I also don't think I would generalize too much about what that means for Tesla going forward.

[kognito]

I'd like to see a Lucid in person

I might be waiting a while

[ZBB]

Originally Posted by JST

It's literally not, unless you plan to track it, which I don't. And I suspect most people buying these cars aren't, either.

In 7 years, I have never encountered a situation where I noticed a degradation in performance based either on battery SOC or driving history. Like the comment about build quality, this is one of those things people talk about but it doesn't mean anything in the real world.

I agree with JST (maybe it’s that we have both owed multiple Teslas )

The only time I experienced a power limitation was the track day at Lagune Seca. Power reduction during the second lap (fortunately after I had a perfect line on the corkscrew)

I have had power limited a couple times due to low battery, but it was honestly not noticeable and we were within a couple miles of charging. I think that starts happening a bit below 10% remaining - and helps you eek out a little more range.

As for build quality - I also agree with JST. Tesla has issues and I’m surprised they let the cars get delivered with the type of issues that we’ve had. They let their service shops handle the rework instead of fixing before the customer sees the problem. 2 examples: the Model Y was delivered with a window molding on one of the rear doors that was for the opposite side of the car. Part swap fixed that problem. The Model 3 had part of the dash trim installed incorrectly - you could see a bracket that the piece was supposed to go over. They reinstated the same piece. One these things are fixed, the cars have been rock solid and very reliable. Between the S, 3 and Y, we are approaching 120k total miles...